Children could be collateral damage in COVID19 control

[Kokeshi123]

www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/exclusive-children-may-be-covid-19-collateral-damage/7027315.article

"Children may have died from non-coronavirus illnesses because they are not coming to hospital quickly enough, amid concerns NHS 111 may be giving flawed advice to stay away, according to senior pediatricians."

There are also concerns that kids will wind up with spotty vaccination records which end up not being made up for later on. In terms of risk to kids themselves, I'm actually more concerned about future outbreaks of measles and diphtheria than about CV itself, I have to say.

I'm also concerned about the impact on little children's immune systems and eyesight development if lockdowns and other restrictions (esp being completely kept away from other children) are allowed to persist for months rather than weeks. The world's foremost leukemia expert has been pretty adamant that children should ideally be exposed to lots of other children and normal germs in their environments, because raising babies in an immunological bubble raises the risk of their developing autoimmune conditions later on.

As we try to decide how long the lockdown should persist, these factors need to be taken into account IMO.

[HoffiCoffi13]

Stet it must depend on the area as we can’t get an MMR appointment for our 14 month old. We had to cancel his scheduled appointment as we were self isolating, and they’ve told us they can’t currently re book.

[middleager]

True Stet and they will have some immunity. I just hope it doesn't maximise the risk to the smaller ones.

Xenia - spot on.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

Depends on the location I guess. None of the GP surgeries / hospital trusts where I am are using Covid as an excuse to cut vital services. Yes where they can be completed online (or via another venue) they are but I imagine a number of trusts are basically just trying to save money.

[Barbararara]

I’ll say it.

If we just STAY THE FUCK AT HOME for a short period we can potentially press pause on the spread of the virus and work out where it is which could make it possible to do effective contact tracing again.
If we could get to a point where we continue to isolate the elderly and vulnerable, and impose a proper quarantine on those who come into contact with the virus, then life could resume to some extent.
The fastest route to that outcome is to stay home. The more people who bend and buck the rules the longer this goes on, and the more collateral damage builds up.

[morecoffeerequired]

It's all very well starting a thread like this.

But it isn't going to help anyone, is it?

[Distressingtimes]

there is also a longer-term worry about the effect of the lockdown on the UK’s child vaccination programme. GP surgeries have effectively stopped doing routine infant vaccination – and families have yet to be offered advice as to when this will restart.

The guidance on workload prioritisation from the BMA says childhood immunisations are to continue to avoid the increase in preventable diseases.

[cptartapp]

I'm a practice nurse still doing vaccinations although there are many parents just not turning up. The problem will arise when lockdown ends and people venture out, our clinics will be rammed with people expecting to be seen asap, with a very lengthy wait for appointments and staff with a backlog of leave to take.

[QuestionMarkNow]

It’s obvious that children might well suffer of the fact we dint have the same level of access to healthcare.
This applies to the whole of the population though.

Plus seeing the high level of stress around, there will be a rise of illnesses associated with stress.

[QuestionMarkNow]

And YY @cptartapp, it will also be a huge issue when the lockdown finishes.

This will be a continuation on the lack of access to services though.

[MarieQueenofScots]

cptartapp

I wonder if I might ask a question which has just come to mind.

DD had her first HPV vaccine in September and was due to get her second this term.

Have you any idea as to what is happening with this inoculation given it takes place at school?

[Rocketmam]

The 'young' are not immune to the collapse of the nhs. Even those who go private aren't (unless they own their own hospital/doctors/ventillators).

Healthy dc get appendicitis, they fall over spectacularly, they get blood poisoning, they get meningitis, they could find a lump that needs looking at promptly.

It isn't a simple case of choosing the weak and old over the young. The young will be just as fucked even without ever getting ill from coronavirus.

[wonderstuff]

I think that women and children are not being adequately protected. Certain parts of the NHS, imo maternity and pediatric health should not be used for covid19. I think it is relevant the average age of people dying. I read somewhere that more lives were lost due to lack on contraception and maternity care during Ebola than lost to Ebola itself.
I've also read that no one studied the effects of SARS on pregnant women and newborns during the last pandemic, so we are now clueless on that still.
I believe there's been a lot of knee jerk reaction, which to some extent is understandable and even necessary, but different groups of society now need to be considered.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

^If we could get to a point where we continue to isolate the elderly and vulnerable, and impose a proper quarantine on those who come into contact with the virus, then life could resume to some extent.
The fastest route to that outcome is to stay home. The more people who bend and buck the rules the longer this goes on, and the more collateral damage builds up.^

I don't see how, with so many keyworkers coming into contact with people daily and their children mixing in schools still and with non-keyworkers who don't wfh still going in to work, there is much hope that the lockdown will get us to a situation where this is possible.

[Austriana]

Agree

[underneaththeash]

I agree with you OP. The risk of healthy young people dying from this now that we have adequate intensive care facilities in place is significantly lower than the harm that will come to young people from the economic, social and mental factors.

We need to get out of this within the next few weeks.

[BeijingBikini]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8189015/Modern-society-afraid-death-no-one-asks-coronavirus-measures-right-says-former-judge.html

Interesting article

[Whiskersandtwitch]

I agree op.

[iamapixie]

Yes they will be, but they were already the collateral damage from our 'western' lifestyles - from obesity, from air pollution, from the ravaging effects of climate change and rising inequality and incessant social media. This is just one more thing we are throwing at them.
The old whom we are trying to protect will also suffer from worsening dementia, mobility, vitamin D levels and general health, which will make the last months and years of many far less pleasant than they would otherwise have been. However, as with children, that is just a continuation of what has come before: we are obsessed with quantity rather than quality of life.
Perhaps this will teach us to think more deeply about our rights and responsibilities to each other but for that to happen, any discourse has to be polite and reasoned, and sadly politeness and reasoning seems to have been in fairly short supply over the last few years.

[Thegirlwithnousername]

Our doctor surgery are still doing immunisations. DD is booked in to have hers soon.

[BeijingBikini]

It's all very well saying "it's just for a few months!!!" but what if we got a pandemic like this every 5 years? Would people be willing to throw their society into chaos, lose jobs, miss routine checks for cancer for an illness that has a 1% death rate of mainly very old people?

If everyone had to live like this for large chunks of their life, for a lot of people it wouldn't be worth it. My mum said she would rather die than fuck up her kids' future, and she used to live under a bankrupt government with tanks on the street.

[middleager]

That is an interesting article.

I agree with him, but I don't know what the future is.

I'm worried for families and for children who will inherit this mess. I do think this whole demographic is being overlooked.

[middleager]

Sorry, I mean what the solution is.

[newrubylane]

We've just been sent a letter telling us to book the 13month vaccinations with our GP. I think they would be considered essential?

[IDontLikeMondays88]

Love how old people are seemingly expendable, makes me so cross. What if it’s your mum/ dad / gran / grandpa who dies??

[Geraniumblue]

The school nurse gave my dd her second hpv vaccine in the surgery in the holidays - this was before the pandemic, but maybe worth asking your local surgery.