Children could be collateral damage in COVID19 control

[Kokeshi123]

www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/exclusive-children-may-be-covid-19-collateral-damage/7027315.article

"Children may have died from non-coronavirus illnesses because they are not coming to hospital quickly enough, amid concerns NHS 111 may be giving flawed advice to stay away, according to senior pediatricians."

There are also concerns that kids will wind up with spotty vaccination records which end up not being made up for later on. In terms of risk to kids themselves, I'm actually more concerned about future outbreaks of measles and diphtheria than about CV itself, I have to say.

I'm also concerned about the impact on little children's immune systems and eyesight development if lockdowns and other restrictions (esp being completely kept away from other children) are allowed to persist for months rather than weeks. The world's foremost leukemia expert has been pretty adamant that children should ideally be exposed to lots of other children and normal germs in their environments, because raising babies in an immunological bubble raises the risk of their developing autoimmune conditions later on.

As we try to decide how long the lockdown should persist, these factors need to be taken into account IMO.

[Shmabel]

The are lots of good points here about the disadvantages kids will face as a result.

Not a fan of this one:
Not a huge comfort to children who are now spending longer at home with their rapists and abusers

That there are piece of shit rapists isn't a good reason not to have a lockdown. The abusers need to be dealt with regardless of lockdown. Kids are getting abused because of abusers. Not because of lockdown.

Also don't know why a PP had to bring the average age of people who died into it. What message is that really trying to convey? Because my inference is that the problems it will cause for kids outweighs the lost lives it terms of negative outcomes.

There will be many consequences of lockdown for many groups, but whilst it's only several months restrictions, I think, on balance, the problems associated with not having a lockdown (which go way beyond old people dying of CV) outweigh the problems associated with lockdown, for society as a whole.

If we were talking years or even many months, that's a whole different story.

[implantsandaDyson]

I'm not using emotional blackmail, I'm telling the truth - more children are at risk of being raped, abused and neglected because the usual safeguards aren't there. The number of sexual abuse reports amongst children also fall over the long summer holidays - this doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I find it strange that this is emotional blackmail but the hypothetical deaths of parents is alright.

[DressingGownofDoom]

'we are planning for beyond the peak but what we do will be informed by science and data, which is not yet sufficient to provide a best course of action'

Well hopefully what we do will be informed by better science than the science that encouraged mixing in large crowds at Crufts, Cheltenham etc.

[Shmabel]

I find it strange that this is emotional blackmail but the hypothetical deaths of parents is alright

It was certainly emotive to further your argument. But I agree, the better than dead parents" is the same

[Rocketmam]

As a survivor you sicken me. I do not think lockdown increases the risk, I think it increases the opportunity. If they are living with someone who rapes them then it would happen anyway until someone made them safe.

What were you doing for these poor children before lockdown? Or do you only give a shit now you can use them to argue against lockdown?

[Sodamncaughtinthemiddle]

There are other illnesses that kill parents apart from Coronavirus
I'm anorexic and cant see my nurse... I'm spiralling and weekly phone calls arent cutting it - this is instead of twice weekly visits.
I honestly feel like me and my children are of no consequence
I need to see my Drs and my nurses.
If full lock down happens I can only eat certain foods and I'm already petrified the food wont be there and if food shopping is only once a week I dont know what I'd do. I worry I will get fined when I have to go out for laxatives as it's not essential but they are for me.
I have tried to stay off mumsnet as so many of the posts are sending my anxiety through the roof.
I'm sorry for derailing the thread

[Stet]

Re: vaccinations, they are certainly still going ahead here. DD just had her MMR and they stressed now important it was to get the routine vacs done. It's pretty much the only thing the GP's surgery is open for at the moment.

[Lenny1980]

I made an appointment two days ago for baby vaccinations. The surgery said it’s one of the few things they are continuing with and they have certain afternoons set aside for them when no other types of appointments are being made.

[Shmabel]

@Sodamncaughtinthemiddle
I'm sorry for your struggles. It is Coronavirus that has worsened them, not the lockdown. NHS is stretched and will be more so without the lockdown

[Tootletum]

I agree that it's not long until the cure is worse than death from the disease. Our tempers are fraying with our kids when we're trying to WFH, and if we struggle I dread to think about families in poverty and/or with emotional difficulty to start with. Apparently most people on Mumsnet are happy with any remedy though.

[Sodamncaughtinthemiddle]

Thank you shmabel for being kind.
I just feel so totally overwhelmed with all of it.
I'm living in a permanent state of fear at the moment. Literally hunched over fear.
I dont think mumsnet is the place for me at the moment. It feeds the fear

[Flaxmeadow]

Not a huge comfort to children who are now spending longer at home with their rapists and abusers.

No it isnt but social workers and the police are still in operation. They havent suddenly stopped working.

Important but not as vital social workers have been moved into more urgent child protection roles.

[MintyMabel]

Those poor children would have been facing that every day anyway, even when we were all happily going about our own lives

But they had an escape daily in going to school. With people who could help them, who noticed it, who did something about it.

Now they are trapped 24/7 with the people who are doing it to them. Presumably you can see how that makes a bad situation worse?

I agree OP, I think the consequences of the impact of this on children will be seen for many years to come.

And yeah, sure, better than losing family to it, but the reality is, even if we didn’t lock down, the majority of children wouldn’t lose a parent to it. Death rates would be much higher, too high for sure but statistically most families wouldn’t lose parents. Not suggesting that’s a better solution, just that it is a false argument.

[ChristmasCarcass]

Exercise can be done at home, no matter how small the home

It really can’t. We could only fit a yoga mat on the floor in the living room if we upended the sofa and put it in the kitchen. DH and DS would then have to go into the bedroom to avoid being hit mid-routine. DS “exercises” at home by bouncing on the sofa. I don’t think you have any idea how small some modern flats are.

[Marieo]

I think this is true for everyone, but I guess ultimately children rely on others to make the choices for them of when to seek help etc. Immunisations are going ahead as normal here, they have another building earmarked for doing it if the surgery becomes unsafe, but there have been outbreaks locally of measles so maybe more of a priority here.

[Shmabel]

@Sodamncaughtinthemiddle
You're not alone. Unfortunately, there's too much scorn, judgment and ridicule on MN right now for it to be at all supportive. Keep at it - this won't go on for as long as people catastrophise

[corythatwas]

The way I think you have to look at this is, would children be less likely to die from other illnesses if more NHS staff die? It's not just a case of getting to A & E: it also helps if the nurse and the doctor on duty are not dead.

[AprilFloundering]

A generation of short-sighted children being incubated at home right now ...

[middleager]

My son 13, missed his MMR final booster at school because of this.

I highlighted my concerns a few weeks ago on here regarding immunisations.
I posed the question to Jenny Harries on the chat here a few weeks ago - not sure if she answered.
What will happen if there is an outbreak of measles, given children aren't able to get vaccinated? What will happen to the immunisation programme?

[middleager]

Re: vaccinations, they are certainly still going ahead here. DD just had her MMR and they stressed now important it was to get the routine vacs done. It's pretty much the only thing the GP's surgery is open for at the moment.

My 13 year old was meant go get this at school though, but it was the final day before school closed and half were off (mine with fever). Where do they get theirs done?

[Xenia]

We have chosen to protect the weak, old and ill and damage the young. It was clear as soon as we decided to close the schools. It is the wrong course of action. Sweden has it right.

[BlueMoon1103]

I agree. Another reason why this can’t go on.

[bluebluezoo]

Not a huge comfort to children who are now spending longer at home with their rapists and abusers

There are lots of children who are abused by family friends, uncles, cousins, step siblings, and other people they are now protected from.

Lock down will be helping some and not others. We can only hope the ones it’s not helping seek assistance with no other escape.

[Stet]

I've no idea about school ones, DD is only 14mo. Perhaps they are less time critical than the ones for very young children?

[Stuckforthefourthtime]

Shmabel the reason that the median age of someone dying from coronavirus matters is that if it's already above the median life expectancy, we are saving a relatively smaller number of years of life. It's not just about absolute number lives - there's a reason that NICE decides which medicines to fund on the basis of 'quality adjusted life years'. To use a more extreme example, would you save the life of an ailing 90 year old at the cost of 20 children losing decades of life expectancy? If we continue this for too long, that's the kind of maths we'll face.

I still think we should do a lockdown to protect the more vulnerable (of which I am one!), just that it should be brief. We've already had enough in our society of throwing young people under the bus for the old, from supporting high house prices to protecting the pensions triple lock while abandoning younger families to universal credit.