Care Home Dilemma. Dont know what to do

[ilovesouthlondon]

Hi everyone.

I'm writing this because I'm desperate for advice but deep down I dont think theres anything we can do.

My grandfather is in a care home. We have tried to get the council to take his 1 bed property back and take his daughters separate attic flat back and exchange for a two bed ground floor property so that they can live together. Council dragging their feet with this however social services say he can't live alone (keeps disappearing), hence him being in the care home.

Since Corona kicked off in the UK the care home allows no visitors. We usually visit every day with his dinner, so we were concerned he would feel abandoned (he doesn't have a phone). They called a few weeks ago to say a few patients have caught corona virus, so they have isolated them and moved him to another floor. He had a temperature but managed to get better.

They called yesterday to ask if one of us could come in as he's not eating. I knew this was serious as they are not allowing any visitors in at the moment.

A family member went and was stunned that there were only 4 residents (including him) left on his floor. All the others had died. The other floors are similar. His key worker has also died from corona. We were shocked as you expect to hear these things on the news as it's still early days. I cant believe his key worker died because of no proper PPE for £8ph. I know it's not about the money but that's why we need to keep staff safe.

My grandad is very frail and would not eat the home cooked soup brought in for him. He would bearly look up.

The dilemma is what to do? We cant visit him. They wont test him. We cant take him out as we dont know if he has it and social services wont allow it unless we have an appropriate property to bring him to. I feel that if we leave him there we are sealing his fate. Dont know what to do or how to find a way around this to save him and keep everyone safe.

[WhoWants2Know]

If all the residents are elderly and living in a nursing home with medical staff present, I think they would be unlikely to be moved to hospital, and made as comfortable as possible where they are instead.

[PuzzledObserver]

Most people in care homes are well past 80, and usually with several health issues as well. The brutal truth is that their chance of surviving if they need ventilation is pretty low.

Take comfort from the fact that, in the early stages of the outbreak in China, the survival rate among people over 80 was better than 85%. If your grandfather no longer has a temperature, he is hopefully among that group.

[ilovesouthlondon]

Thanks but if you read the thread you will see that we are serious about getting him out which is obviously why I've posted on here in the first place. You are not allowed in care homes we were asked on a one off and probably should not have been let in so this is not "sorted".

You have given me some good questions to ask the care home and I will but with the entire UK on lockdown i would have thought it obvious why we cant just take him out or visit without testing or permission. There is new legislation around this. I guess some people will only understand what we are going through if it happens to them (God forbid) or to someone they know.

The social workers manager came back to us and said under no circumstances can he be moved because the risk is too high of him spreading any infection he may have to the public and to us as well as home care staff. We have very little chance of getting a test done but I'm still asking for one as testing is now clearly the only way out of this.

If it was so easy and streight forward I would be with him not desperately looking online for help.

[Bargebill19]

When care home staff and nhs staff aren’t being tested there is zero chance of him getting a test.
You aren’t going to be able to move him until this is over and then only with a sound, workable plan in place.

[VanGoghsDog]

You could try speaking to Age Concern or AgeUK?
He won't get tested, even the private tests have sold out.

I can't see the council doing anything about housing right now I'm afraid.

[littlealexhorne]

I don't have any real advice but I'm just so sorry this is happening, its awful, and I really hope there's a positive outcome for you all.

[HennyPenny4]

I suppose you don't need to go into the home. They could wheelchair him to the door and step back and you take him to your car.

Get SS on side if you can. Perhaps offer to continue to pay for the room.

[ChakaDakotaRegina]

No advice but a handhold.

At least he’s in a familiar environment and carers are still going in. Do you think he could work a phone of you could get one in and the carers could start a FaceTime? Just to give him some immediate support?

[Inkpaperstars]

There was a piece about care homes near the end of Newsnight last night, it's on iplayer. They were suggesting that some residents of care homes are being asked to sign do not resuscitate orders. I think you need to check that your grandad hasn't signed anything as he clearly is not mentally in a position to do so. In the US care homes are now asking people to take residents out and care for them elsewhere if possible.

I am so sorry you're all such a terrible position OP.

Do try your MP.

[AmelieTaylor]

I would get a lawyer on to this today.

You can leave home if you are in danger or fir medical needs, I would hope he would be able to be moved under this if a family member is happy to quarantine with him then I really don’t see how they can argue based on spreading it - he’d be more quarantined at home than with staff coming & going

I’m sorry you’re going through this. 🌷

[OnTheEdgeOfTheNight]

I don't know why you got so upset about my post - I suggested a few questions for the care home and said that if you still wanted to remove him, to ask where in the legislation forbade you from doing so.
Anyway I've asked mnhq to remove the posts.
Fwiw I have a lot of experience of care homes, which is why I tried to help.

[OnTheEdgeOfTheNight]

Anyway I hope he stays well whatever happens.

[Inkpaperstars]

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/878099/Admission_and_Care_of_Residents_during_COVID-19_Incident_in_a_Care_Home.pdf

Hope that link works OP. Not sure if much in it helps but it does seem to suggest that relatives not visiting is advisory not compulsory. I think possible they cannot enforce it.

[ilovesouthlondon]

On the edge of the night I got upset beca6you said "if you're really serious about getting him out" or something to that effect. I'm highly strung right now so let's put that behind us as you gave me very good questions to ask ( thank you).

We have again been told that no movement out of the home is allowed but they did call today to say that he is still refusing to eat, drink or take medication so we must prepare for the worst.

They are prepared for his daughters to come and see him today but I cant come because I have a toddler and he will not be allowed in.

I've spoken to them several times today and begged them to call an ambulance so he can get on a drip as I dont see any chance for him now in the care home.

They were reluctant but then agreed to call his GP to see if they will agree to send an ambulance. They warned us that they may so no and if they say yes it could take up to 6 hours. He is 89 has COPD and has just got over a chest infection.

Please pray for us

[ilovesouthlondon]

The care home called back and says the GP does not want him moved, so no ambulance or drip for him. They are saying he is very ill because of dementia and nothing else. They are calling the out of hours GP to see if they can come and do an assessment.

I asked if all this hesitation was because of his age and they said no, its because of the dementia progressing which is apparently what normally happens as he now cant swallow.

It's clear that he wont be leaving the care home.

Thanks for all your advice but that's it now. Theres nobody else willing to try who has any power.

[ilovesouthlondon]

Thank you inkpaperstars x

[ilovesouthlondon]

I've asked if I can come in the car so they can wheel him to the glass door to wave. My son misses his great grandad and asks for him regularly. They have said he's too ill even for that and I guess they are busy and stressed.

I asked my mum if she could go in with a phone and video call as she may still go in there depending on the out of hours doctors assessment but they have said no phones allowed.

I'm guessing this is to prevent infection as smart phones are difficult to navigate without the naked finger (the buttons dont always react to a gloved finger).

[Menora]

This is so sad and I am so sorry. I hope that someone does see him and can call you to explain what is happening. It is the case that dementia patients often do stop eating and drinking, having lost a grandparent myself in the same way it is very scary and someone should have prepared you for the fact that this can happen. No one prepared my family although I knew this from having worked with dementia patients, but it was a shock and my family would keep pushing my Nan to eat and drink until she just would not

And also I hope they assure you that they can make him comfortable as he can be and he is probably sleeping and not in any pain or distress x

[ilovesouthlondon]

They've just called to say that he died.

Thanks for the advice.

[reallifegetsintheway2]

I'm so, so sorry to hear that news.

[CoatTails]

I’m so very very sorry x

[WelshMoth]

Oh I'm so sorry.
What a desperately sad situation.

I don't really know what to say, so will offer a quiet hand hold.

[Lovemusic33]

So sorry to read your update OP.

I feel for the many people in this situation and anyone working in a care home, many have died and have no been included in the CV numbers as they were not tested. My lovely mum works in a care home, she’s on holiday this week and has received a letter from her doctor advising she doesn’t return (she’s in treatment that compromises her immune system), I think she is relieved as she’s scared as to what the next couple weeks will bring for the staff and residents.

I’m so sorry you have lost your dad in such a way, I’m sorry you didn’t get to say goodbye to him, it’s such a awful situation for everyone involved.

[CormoranStrike]

I am very sorry to read your update.

Was he in the care home in Glasgow with all the deaths, or is this happening in multiple care homes?