is it normal to bleed during labour?

[aloha]

Am getting up energy to write a letter of complaint re my treatment in labour - ie completely ignored and left entirely alone and my dh sent home, despite being in agony and having had a previous c/s. I was also bleeding and this scared me as I had no idea if it was normal or not. The midwife on duty overnight seemed to be able to completely ignore me quite happily so I never got an answer from her. I got the impression that she didn't believe me and kept saying it was just a show, despite the fact that I'd had one of those nearly a week earlier. Anyway, just trying to find out if it is normal or not.
Also, any tips on who to complain to would be welcome. Thanks.

[bubble99]

Hi aloha

Get the energy up and write that letter. Don't post it straightaway, review it a couple of days later but do it now while it's still fresh in your memory (not that you're likely to forget in a hurry.)
Do you have names of the staff involved? The hospital should be able to check the staff rotas to see who was on duty on that/those particular shift/s and each patient should have been allocated a named MW responsible for their "care."
As you know one of our son's was stillborn 15 days ago as a result of inaction by the hospital. We are waiting for the results of his postmortem which may show that there was something physiologically wrong with him (there were no obvious visible problems). The fact remains that he and his surviving twin were left in distress for 7 hours despite repeated requests, then demands, then me literally begging for a CS.

DH and are are going through the whole range of emotions and anger is where I'm at right now. I'm angry with the doctors for their complete ineptitude and arrogance. I suspect that one of them wanted to add a vaginal delivery of twins to her professional portfolio hence her attempts at amniotomy and trial labour even though twin two was dying. I'm angry at the MW's who did nothing to prevent this.

We are "fortunate" enough to have an official enquiry to look into events but I think you have a strong case to demand something similar. As uwila says (I love uwila btw she is one feisty chick) go straight to the top, by all means make an appt to speak to head of midwifery, but don't get fobbed off. It is only by speaking out that things change.

[aloha]

Can't believe you could find it in your heart to post to me Bubble. Of course I know about Bo and can't compare what happened to me to what happened to you - except that there does seem to be a culture of neglect of women in labour.
I am so sorry about Bo and can completely understand your anger.
Puddle, Hatsoff, Seashells...what can I say? How can experienced staff not realise what a frightening experience it is to be alone in labour? Though I am fine normally, I felt tearful about it again last night, and at first couldn't even think about it without crying. In some ways it shattered my faith in people to be compassionate to someone who in distress. They really couldn't care less. And Amanda, thanks for your support too. I will draft something over the weekend, and then as you suggest Bubble, review it afterwards. I was fine and it was only one night, and my daughter was born healthy so this isn't really for me, but to try and make those responsible realise that this sort of thing is damaging and irresponsible and maybe get some kind of protocol set up so women do get listened to and aren't left alone in labour. Or do I see a pig overhead....?

[uwila]

Aw, Bubbles. Thanks.

[charleypops]

Bubbles, I hope they don't mess you around with the enquiry x

I'm apalled at some of the posts on here - I feel absolutely gutted at how women in labour can be so easily disregarded at such a massively important/painful/scary/potentially dangerous time

I am so sorry that some of you have been left to feel angry, even years after the event.

Can they make your dh/dp go home?? I would be absolutely terrified to be left alone. What a time to have to have your wits about you and be assertive. I'm having my first in June.

[charleypops]

Good luck with your complaint Aloha. I contacted the PCT about a dentist complaint a few months ago. They are very nice and efficient on the phone, so I would agree that contacting them first would be a good way forward x

[charleypops]

Bubbles, I hope they don't mess you around with the enquiry x

I'm apalled at some of the posts on here - I feel absolutely gutted at how women in labour can be so easily disregarded at such a massively important/painful/scary/potentially dangerous time

I am so sorry that some of you have been left to feel angry, even years after the event.

Can they make your dh/dp go home?? I would be absolutely terrified to be left alone. What a time to have to have your wits about you and be assertive. I'm having my first in June.

[bubble99]

charleypops

At the hospital I went to there was a notice on the wall saying that partners/husbands could only stay once active labour had started. On a previous admisssion (for monitoring of protein in my urine) two weeks before Elijah was born, I was horrified to see women being admitted to a 6 bedded antenatal ward for induction of labour. There were 3 women who had been given Prostin gel and left behind the curtains. There wasn't enough room on the labour ward to move them to and so these women were beginning to dilate and labour on a ward with other women and their visitors listening in. This was what prompted us to elect for an overnight induction. I had been induced overnight before with my last pg and had received good care.
If you can, ask the hospital what it's policy is Re: DH/DP's staying. It seems crazy to send a DH/DP home if labour is progressing. Pupuce would advise, rightly IMO, that you stay at home for as long as possible, especially with a first baby. Do you live far from the hospital?

[charleypops]

Bubbles that sounds horrible, having to begin labour with just a curtain between these women and and the rest of the ward and their visitors! I think most people with a choice of time for their induction would have opted for a night time one like you did to avoid that situation. Surely labouring is an intensely private experience? I certainly will ask what the policy is, thanks for the tip. Reading through some of the posts here though, it can be a hit or miss sometimes whether or not an imminent onset of labour is "diagnosed" correctly. I know I want to stay at home for as long possible before going in. We live 20 mins (with no traffic) along the A3 to the hospital, which at rush hour can take an hour. I just wish there was a way I could tell if I was dilating (if this is the definition of actually being in labour?) myself without having to be examined in hospital, I imagine the pain will be so bad I'll be sure I'll be in labour when I'm actually not.

Sorry about my odd double post - my pc's been really weird tonight.

[gingernut]

Sorry don't have time to read everything so don't know if my reply will be relevant, but I bled quite heavily during my second labour (started in pre-labour phase, a couple of days before established labour kicked in). Sounds a bit like what you experienced - loads of bright red blood, I just kept wiping and wiping and it kept coming (sorry if TMI). Phoned hospital - they said probably just a show but I could come in for monitoring if I was worried. I was, so went in and when they saw how much blood there was they decided to keep me in for 24 hours so they were obviously concerned (presumably because they were worried about abruption - they put a cannula in just in case they had to give me a GA in a hurry). They came to check on me quite frequently and monitored the baby 2 or 3 times while I was in. In the end the bleeding subsided a bit and they decided it was just a very heavy bloody show and let me go home. I continued to bleed throughout the labour (which took days, despite being the second ).

No bleeding in my first labour BTW.

So, no, I don't think from my epxerience and their reaction that it's normal. And I think you would be justified in complaining about your treatment.

[bubble99]

charleypops

We need pupuce who is a doula or mears, mandy and others who are/were practising midwives to help with the dilatation question - but as this is your first things tend to happen more slowly ie. I'm sure you won't be giving birth in the car on the A3 Make sure your hospital bag's packed well in advance and your notes are on hand and don't let your DH/DP do what my uncle did to my poor auntie and book the car in for a service on the way to hospital - "Well, we were passing the garage!"

I'm off to bed now. Night night, I'll bump this thread up in the morning in the hope that we can catch a passing MW/doula

[charleypops]

Night bubbles! Thanks for the advice. re your uncle!!

[bobbybob]

I am shocked that dp/dh's are not allowed to stay with labouring women. What on earth do they think they will do? Surely having your child's father there with you should be a right - it's his child too. I'm sure it would help labour progress quicker (though I know you didn't want to be in labour in the first place Aloha).

I didn't bleed, and whether it's normal or not isn't really the issue, the issue is that even though you were the woman in labour you were not listened too. Very poor. There should have been more support for you because you were not supposed to go into labour and therefore you would have more questions about what was normal, and would need more support.

I hope you get the result you want.

[bubble99]

bump

[hatsoff]

bobbybob - I agree about the progression thing - for me anyway. I am convinced (as our other midwives I have spoken to) that had I had support in the first few hours, had I not been very scared and very alone, that I wouldn't have ended up with the long labour, high bp, epidural, ventouse etc etc. I know as interventions go it was somewhere in the middle, but it felt pretty unpleasant to me!

[Amanda3266]

I've worked in hospitals where the norm seemed to be that they would send a partner home if the Mum wasn't in established labour and was on the antenatal ward. However, this has never sat comfortably with me and I used to leave it up to the couple to decide what they wanted to do which was not always popular with my colleagues. However, when somebody is in pain they need support either from a midwife or from their partner which is why sending someone home who wants to be with their partner seems alien to me.

[hatsoff]

Hi Amanda - I can see why, in some respects, they send people home, and I guess it's not that in itself, it's when they send them home, but then don't offer any substitute support. Ok, in erly labour you don't always need medical, professional support but you do need emotional support. Midwives haven't got time to just be there and talk to someone in early labour - so, like you, I think they should be able to have their dp/dh with them, if they want. And surely ultimately, this could mean less demands on teh midwives?

[Amanda3266]

Totally agree hatsoff. It makes no sense at all. Having a baby is a joint thing - why should the Dad be excluded. It's all part of the reason I left. Men excluded and women still not supported - madness.

[SeaShells]

That was my problem, I was contracting for days but because I was not in 'established labour' it felt like no one was bothered, they wouldn't give me any pain relief other than paracetamol and my DP was told he 'had' to leave, I had been having imensely painful contractions which would become regular then die down again and was at the end of my tether emotionally, hadn't slept for days and was distraught, up until DP was sent home I had been holding onto him and crying and it was so distressing to have him pulled away from me like that. I became hysterical at a time I needed to be strong. I seriously think that a change in this area needs to be considered just looking at the experiences posted on here. I was in a side room alone and I do not understand what harm my DP being there would have done?

[SeaShells]

At the later stages of labour I was 'drugged' up and had a lot of attention from the midwives and tbh it wasn't that important that DP was there other than to share the miracle of DD being born, I needed the emotional support in early labour, instead of being left alone for hours on end to deal with it by myself

[hatsoff]

seashells - dragging your dp way like that is treating you like a child. I too had had a couple of days of contractions and was left in a single room. It's all so short-sighted

[uwila]

I think the thing about DP/DH being there is that you have someone you trust to speak for you if you should become unable. Someone who isn't lying on a bed under the influence of drugs who can say, look we do/don't wank that vitamin K shot, or don't give my baby a dummy just yet. Sure, you can write it in your birth plan... but do you really trust that an overworked staff has time to read it and will they remember five hours later?

I think that support counts for a lot. nobody tried to send my DH home, but if they did I think I go into hysterics (or pretend to).

[mears]

Aloha - contact the maternity unit and ask them to send you the complaints procedure. Every hospital has one. At out unit the complaint is sent to the Chief Executive of the Trust and is investigated by the complaints officer. They will involve the Head of Midwifery and her staff.

Bleeding in labour is very common, especially after having had an internal examination. Did the midwife ask you to wear a pad and let her see it? What can appear as a frightening amount of blood to you may be normal to the midwife who sees it every day. Being a previous C/S, the midwife should have been keeping a close eye on things IMO.

I must admit that we encourage husband's to go home when their wives are not established in labour, mainly because there are limited facilities for them and also it means both are exhausted when labour does start in earnest. However, we do not force partners to leave. Where there is a single room availbale, there is no reason why partner cannot stay.

[Cooperoo]

I cannot believe that husbands are 'sent' home if the mother-to-be is kept in. If they want to keep you in then surely it is because they think something will happen or that something is possibly wrong and needs monitoring. Going into or possibly being in labour is one of the scariest felings and I for one needed the support of my DH. It has made me appreciate again how lucky I was. You are at your most vulnerable at this time and need your birth partner there as an advocate. Sorry this bit is OT but I am truly shocked.
I did bleed during my labour. I felt it was a lot but also felt it must be normal as no one said any different and I didn't question it (far too trusting and naive). It does sound like it was a 'show' type bleed though.
Aloha - Really good luck with this. I hope that what you went through will make someone sit up and listen. So sorry you had to go through it though.
I admire the other ladies who have posted too for what you had to endure (esp you Bubble xx)

[Cooperoo]

Mears - Would you not encourage the mother to go home too?
I can see that there are certainly common sense cases where the husband should go home but not if it is against their wishes.

[puddle]

Have just caught up with this again. Bubble I really hope you get some answers from the hospital.

Interesting to hear about induction policies. In my case I was induced at 7 in the morning so was in a ward with five other women all the time, until I was finally taken down to the delivery room at 1.00 the next morning. I remember getting really panicked and feeling unable to make a noise as everyone around me was asleep. Agree with everyone who said that you really need support early on in labour - it's so overwhelming.

I did have a bad experience with first baby (it went downhill still further once I was in labour...) but my second birth was really cathartic - it was a great experience and exorcised a lot of the bad memories of the first.I don't think I really dealt with a lot of the trauma of my son's birth until my daughter was born two and half years later and I found peace with it all. I hope that others on this thread will be able to come to terms with their experiences too.