How to get an elective c-section?

[islabonita]

Hello there Ladies.
Is it really possible to get an elective c-section without any "medical reasons" such as placenta previa etc. Is total panic towards childbirth good enough reason to get one?
Is there anyone who got a c-section just because they felt like it was right option for them?
How did you get it and how difficult it was to persuade the consultants?
thanks

[ScottishMummy]

Hmmm not so sure about that!

the medical propfession of course want what the mum wants a health live birth. Birth and labouring guidelines are the result of evidence based medicine and clinical efficacy and wide consultation eg NICE guidelines, RCM consultation papers etc. so to stereotype it as "no doubt made up by some bloke who lives in the dark ages" - is of course totally erroenous, most likely male and females, midwives, medics, other knowledgeable people too.


maybe also remember that it is medics who will intervene and manage a clinical situation eg CSection, SCBU, Maintain airways etc so dont knock them

[blueshoes]

My own view of the medical establishment's approach to natural birth in a low risk pregnancy/birth is that it is not necessarily in the dark ages - the 2 London hospitals I delivered at had birth pools, home-away-from-home units which the midwives were proud of.

But whilst the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak.

Their promises are seductive, but their execution appalling. I was told I would have my own room to deliver in, my own amenity suite to recover in (if available), non-continuous monitoring (VBAC) if all signs were good at the start etc etc. When it came to it, boy, was I glad I still opted for an elective. The hospital was so overstretched women were delivering 4 to a room (I mean delivering, not early labouring) separated only by a screen. My lovely midwife disappeared as soon as I was brought into the postnatal ward and did not go home until 5 hours after her shift ended - she was helping out elsewhere. The obstetrics unit took over the hospital and then had to close to new mothers who were ambulanced to the next hospital.

Kitty, if you arrived there at the last minute, you would have delivered in an ambulance.

Not being funny. Not every woman wants her first delivery (or subsequent) to be a home birth. No woman wants to put her child (or herself) at risk. The advantage of an elective cs in the appalling state of the NHS is you get to lock in your risks. A bit like insurance ...

[Luxmum]

Just to add my tuppense worth of opinion to the topic, I think that if you are scared of teh birth, hypnotherapy - such as teh book by Marie Mongan or the NatalHypnotherapy cds would be very very very useful to the OP. I had a planned CS for my first as there were complications and they needed to whip him out fast. As far as teh surgery went, that was fine, over in 20 minutes. I don't remember being shown my baby, or remember his first day to be honest, and the pain from the scar was horrific for me. Other people are able to cope better, but i found the pain enough to black out, and the amount of tubes inside me amazing. It certainly wasn't non-invasive and i certainly felt very much out of control - because i couldnt move for a few days, the poor nurses had to wash my nether regions and general look after me, and i found that quite humiliating. I'm due next week, and so so so so excited about having a VBAC. I bought the hypno cds and books, which were brilliant in getting me used to the idea that a VB is natural,and my body was designed for it. I feel much more in control this time, and much more focused. Hopefully everythign will go to plan, but please do think hard about your fears and see if you can address some of them. As you said, everyone loves to tell you horror stories, I have heard them for both CS's and VBs and to be honest, you are not like other women, and what happens to them will not neccessarily happen to you. Please read as much as possible so you are happy with whatever decision you make, but dont think a CS will be easier or leave you more in control, personally, I felt very much disconnected and prodded, and got piles anyway, so it's a matter of weighing up the pros and cons and seeing which suits you better. Good luck.

[ScottishMummy]

also to add regardless of mode of arrival eg VB, CS what is important is mum and baby, and the beautiful relationship that develops.so imho i dont think it necessarily matters how baby arrived as long as you are both okay

[eleusis]

Isla,
What hospital are you at? You can probably get a section on the NHS, but you will probably have to stomp your feet quite a bit.

If you really want a section, write it on your maternity notes. Copy them. Get an appointment with a consultant. Tell the consultant you have copied the notes and make clear that if your request is refused and anything goes wrng in natural childbirth it will be a consequence of his decision not yours. That'll pretty much scare any PCT into giving you an elective.

[Klaw]

Jo71 if you would be so good as to contact me via my website contact form, I'll send you a word.doc for the links I've collated to do with VBAC. I've got an out of date list of links on my website but they'll give you an idea of what I've got collated....

I'm a VBACtivist and proud! But I'll support a woman to the end if she wants a CS for psychological reasons, although I'd strongly advise some counselling first to be sure there was no chance of changing her mind. The first CS impacts future births and is not the easy option. As has been mentioned on this thread already.

Unfortunately the state of Maternity means that traumatic births are common because one must be aware that certain policys are not there to give the individual the best treatment. But this does not mean it is guaranteed! If a woman decides to research her options, reads up on normal birth, writes down her birth preferences and ensures that she has excellent birth partners she has every chance of a wonderful birth without prodding and poking and if she is given an internal during a contraction she should boot the HCP in to the middle of next week! (That's out of order!) If she decides not to do this and books a CS she guarantees a scar on her abdomen and is likely to have to deal with infection. But most of the posters on this thread don't want to hear about that...

I have been at a birth where the mws did not touch the woman, the placenta fell out after 8 mins, the older children came down to meet baby, the mws quietly cleaned up and left, dad emptied the pool, mum fed baby often and then we all went to bed. That baby is the most contented I've ever seen.

You can have a good birth, it just depends on how much you want it. Just wish I had read the normal birth books before my first, then I wouldn't have been so naive and would have known that the medical professionals did not have my best interests at heart but were simply exercising risk management. The 'system' we have in the NHS is not about helping women give birth normally and so it is up to us as mothers to stand up for what we want, research our options and learn about normal birth.

Shouldn't have to be like that tho... so I can understand why women choose elCS.

[kittywits]

Scottish mummy I beg to differ.

[Bibis]

Scottishmummy it does matter, if it matters to the mother then it affects the baby too.

Boy did it matter to me

[lulumama]

absolutely, totally disagree scottishmummy

how the baby arrives is of paramount importance to a woman's mental health, perception of herself, her sexuality and many other factors

every email i get from women suffering from birth trauma tells the same story

and so many have been fobbed off, not just by friends and family, but by medics too, dismissing their feelings about the birth, as long as the baby is ok...

birth has far reaching effects, it is not just a mode of arrival for a baby

[lulumama]

it is hard to develop a beautiful relationship with your baby if you are in immense pain, drugged up to the eyeballs, confined to a bed, and possibly depressed

that is regardless of whether vb or cs

[kittywits]

here, here {claps}

[ScottishMummy]

to clarify are u saying a drug free VB is somehow more worthy and wont result in contraindications, is the counter implication that CSection results in less positive outcomes?

what is your evidence base
sampe size
sampling/methodology used

is this anecdotal evidenc or statistically significant peer reviewed data?

[lulumama]

absolutely not, and no need for the patronising tone of your post

as a doula and volunteer for the BTA, i can tell you that there can be birth trauma with c.s and v.b , but on the whole, the majority of women i have had contact with have been traumatised by c.s

no birth is more worthy than any other, but the fear that is stricken into women about v.b and what their bodies are designed for is very troubling. women are losing faith in their abilities to give birth, not least in part due to the medicalisation of birth .


also :

By lulumama on Mon 10-Sep-07 20:20:22
it is hard to develop a beautiful relationship with your baby if you are in immense pain, drugged up to the eyeballs, confined to a bed, and possibly depressed

that is regardless of whether vb or cs

[kittywits]

You tell it like it is Lulu!

[lulumama]

kitty - i am telling it , how i know it is, and do not care for the fact that anything shor t of a piece on RCOG journal will not be accepted as relevant or correct.

i don;t often get angry or make pointed comments on here, but my life was ruined, but ruined for years ,due to birth trauma, and being fobbed off

if i can help one woman avoid that, or have a more positive experience, then that makes it all worthwhile

[ScottishMummy]

i am outlining recognised good practice reserch methodology and clinical efficacy. indeedy as your sample present with birth trauma, it is not necessarily objective representative sample then.and not indicative of all Csection because in absence of contraindications, positive outcome mums not present to BTA

[lulumama]

but SM, i am not presenting my views as properly researched evidence, but empirical data, for want of a better description

doesn;t mean they are not true

and i have never ever said that elective section or in fact c.section per se is a bad thing, it can be a life saving procedure for mother and baby

what i strongly object to is the normalising of caesarean as a first port of call.

what i strongly object to is lack of money to address tokophobia and birth trauma

what i strongly object to is birth trauma being dismissed as irrelevant

[kittywits]

Lulu, I'm on your side don't you know! You remember me? Mother of many?
I believe passionately that it matters very, very much HOW a woman gives birth. Sadly the medical establishment begs to differ, as to many others here

[lulumama]

god, i know, i know kitty !! am just being angry, and therefore coming across sharp!! you and i think the same about this issue

[kittywits]

Nah, I did home birth diaries and home grown babies!!

[ScottishMummy]

yes youare describing very real narratives,good work too
i have no problem with that - we differ when indvidual narratives are generalised as if they are the norm when this is not the case

as for evidence based medicine of course i am an exponent of it, it had enhanced care/outcomes and embraced good practice more than mere than habit/ritual

[lulumama]

aha ! i knew it !



you did very , very well, very focused and strong!

[kittywits]

Have you seen them then Lulu?

[lulumama]

what is it that you do , SM?

are you in maternity services?

[lulumama]

seen one of them. cannot remember which one it was. probably home birth diaries