CAMHS refusing to help severely depressed ds15

[elstan]

Hi, hope this doesn't turn into a rant as I am absolutely livid. After waiting around 9 months, ds who is 15 finally had a camhs assessment today. We described his issues, including severe self harm, no friends due to isolating himself, suicide attempt last month and just in general he cannot function normally due to his mental health. Most recently, 2 new issues arose: we noticed he has been taking alcohol from our shelves and that he has been losing a lot of weight, which he swears is unintentional but I found a notebook in his room with a list of foods he eats everyday and their calories beside it. Also written down was a 'diet plan' where he aims to eat less than 600 calories per day. I am absolutely terrified for him and I've only outlined above his 'main' issues, if I were to describe them all I'm sure it would take up several paragraphs.
So we went CAMHS and described everything. They told us 'some people are naturally reclusive and introverted. Your son is one of them,' to which we replied by explaining his self harm and suicide attempt and they just told us 'here we do not have a child with a mental illness. Just a very introverted, shy boy with little confidence. But that will be better once he reaches sixth form!'
They won't help with his eating issues as he has a BMI of 18.5 and it needs to be under 18.5 to even be considered for eating disorder help. Didn't even get offered any sort of counseling. We can't afford private and we don't know what to do anymore, we really thought CAMHS would help us.
Anyone have any experience/recommendations for us?

[smileyforest]

Sealsong, yes its not your fault...its the system unfortunately, I work for the NHS but not mental health, I know how frustrating it is and personally how we are disappointed with poor care. In my opinion my 17y old son needs daily care, therapy, he has lost 2stone in weight, sleeps most of day, lost contact with the outside world, deeply depressed, won't take meds but I daresay, meds may not help him, he needs Professional Help, I wish I could afford to pay privately. He is waiting for an outreach worker, in the meantime, he is just left to suffer. I cannot get into his mind, I'm heartbroken to see him. But I had some joy today, it was my Birthday, he has shutdown on me for a week. But today I received a text. Happy Birthday Mum x The biggest gift of all, in his own world, he remembered me. Gives me hope x

[anotherbusymum14]

Ring them and pester them and don't give up. You are fighting for your son here. Do not give up and do not accept no. Sorry you have to keep prodding them ... Any other ideas from posters on how to get back into CAMHS. See above too ^^ re: A&E

[mummytime]

Please don't attack everyone who works in CAHMS.
In some areas it works okay to good. In mine from what the OP says her son would be being seen. The actual suicide attempt is the key feature.

Maybe get him to confess about the suicide attempts to someone in church or similar? This can cause SS to be involved, and can make everyone not to gloss things over. I think worries shared by churches can have more impact than schools for some reason.

[thornrose]

I turned up at CAMHS with dd and refused to leave. I have never done anything like that before.

It got results, they referred me to another service though!

[sharoncarol43]

I do think this is another case of a parent expecting "experts" to come up with "answers" when in fact there are no experts, and there are no answers.

teenagers are like this.

Whereas I do disagree with the poster who said cahms exists for its staff, it doesn't exist to treat children either, it exists to treat parents. All the rebranding in the world doesn't change the fact that it is child guidance, in other words parenting guidance.

in nearly 30 years I have come across exactly one family who feels their input was helpful

Yes they may provide counselling, but counselling in my experience is just another example of the same thing, people expecting "experts" and "answers" where none exist.

I knew a social worker who used to say counselling is a total waste of time in anyone over the age of 7. I think she was probably right.

your problem is that you had expectations of CAMHS that were totally unrealistic and unjustified. You are not going to find the support you want there.

[Ripeningapples]

Happy birthday smiley sending live and prayers for your son's recovery so next year is a better birthday.

DD isn't as bad as some of your children I know but cutting nonetheless and has taken small overdoses. I only know about the latter with hindsight.

CAMHS washed their hands of her until they knew I was meeting the MP when help was miraculously offered on the morning they knew we were meeting. I declined it because by then they had proven themselves unfit for purpose and I do understand there are young people worse than her and I would not divert treatment from them.

Nevertheless our GP refused to help with a private referral and like CAMHS told me to find a counsellor off the internet which is unacceptable. Had advice been available Dd would never have touched CAMHS radar or used any of their resources.

Eventually after drawing a,blank with CAMHS I found a consultant psych after therapist one and dd didn't connect. DD didn"t connect with therapist two either so has now started ADs. This is more than five months after p first foray. Four tabs in she seems perkier. She seemed better tbh from the mi ute they were prescribed. It has taken 22 weeks and £1,200 to get this far. There may be another bit to the jigsaw and we await blood results as the psych doesn't think the symptoms fit with classic depression. I'll update tomorrow.

seal. This is the reality faced by real people and we don't understand why the service is so poor and so hopeless. I feel distraught and five years older than six months ago and we are the lucky ones if any family with a mentally unwell child can ne described as lucky xxx

[sharoncarol43]

Ring them and pester them and don't give up. You are fighting for your son here. Do not give up and do not accept no.

What for exactly?

What magic bean do you think they have got and are withholding?

They haven't got anything of use to this family

[Ripeningapples]

Can you tell us what qualifies yiubto make these judgements please sharoncatol.

The families on this thread are pretty desperate and you aren't helping.

Magic beans: Psychiatrists, diagnoses of underlying conditions, support, advice, expert therapy, you know that sort of thing. The sort of thing that according to the RCP, Yound Mibds, MIND etc., helps people with MH problems.

[sharoncarol43]

what do you WANT from CAMHS ripeningapples?

medication/psychiatrists/diagnosis of underlying conditions etc, nothing to do with CAMHS, the gp is the correct route for accessing health care.

support. advice, expert therapy, etc, all a load of hogwash. No real point to any of it. How long have you been around this type of service? When it's been as long as I have, you will know all the support/advice/therapy etc goes in constant circles, you might s well throw a dice, or better still stay home and put the kettle on, and save your energy.

[sharoncarol43]

as I said, CAMHS is about parenting, not children. And it has a valuable input when parents are not parenting, which doesn't seem to apply to the OP here, or to many others I know who wait hopefully for their CAMHS appointment then come away with nothing.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Sharon - you are wrong. Medication etc HAS to come from CAMHS. We couldn't get the medication from ds1's paediatrician (she's not allowed to prescribe it), let alone the GP - it has to be from a psychiatrist who is based in CAMHS. We also have a nurse who attends all multi agency meetings (held monthly) & coordinates between CAMHS, school & respite. She does a lot of the NHS stuff. They've actually been fine once we were in the system - it was getting in that was tough. It's been nothing about parenting in our case - parenting is not an issue for our son.

I didn't ask for an email. I found out who the chief exec of the healthcare trust was, googled his email address. Emailed him, cc'd MP, councillors & head of children's services, sent email at 9pm at night. He replied an hour later saying he would ensure it was sorted in the morning. By midday they'd phoned with an appointment for ten days later (rather than 18 weeks)

[Noneedforasitter]

Sharon - your position on mental health treatment is understandable but misguided. Treatments often seem to have limited or no affect in the short term, but there are results in the longer term.

CAMHS is not about parents "who are not parenting". That is frankly insulting to parents in this situation.
Parenting someone with mental illness is frustrating, painful and often scary. Our daughter was taken into an adolescent psychiatric unit when her suicidal urges became too strong for her (and us) to manage at home. When the antidepressants began to take effect she returned home and is much better (though not fully recovered). All of that was managed through CAMHS.

[Obs2015]

I don't see CAMHS the same way as Sharon. But, I do fear that they wont give you the support you crave. I fear that the support you want and need just isn't there, and you are one of those for whom their child falls between the cracks.

[Devilishpyjamas]

You do have to battle for support (in anything these days - the cuts mean things are a lot worse than even a few a years ago), but it is there. I have even known CAMHS buy in a specialist service (but suspect that took a few MP letters & intervention). It is worth asking whether the support you will get is worth the battle (& know what you want/need). If it can be found externally then that might be an easier option. In our case we needed CAMHS - no choice - couldn't get it elsewhere. Although tbh it wasn't much of a battle - just took the email to Chief Exec (although the service we needed existed - elsewhere in ds1's life we have had to have services created around him & that took a lot more persistence)

[UsernameIncorrect]

Jesus. I hope one of our suicidal kids never reads these replies.

[Ripeningapples]

Sharon can you tell us something more of why/how you have been around CAMHS for thirty years please.

Our dd became unwell and in the first instance took herself to the GP who said CAMHS. I asked for a private referral and was told to find a therapist off the internet. Then a couple of months of chasing and going back to the GP. After CAMHS recommended something inappropriate I put my foot down with a senior GP partner who recommended a counsellor with whom dd didn't connect. I then sourced a consultant psychiatrist and arranged the GP referral letter. Cons Psych recommended 4/5 sessions of CBT which dd didn't find helpful and we met psych again. DD has started ADs and they seem to be working. Psych has,also suggested there might began underlying physical cause and we are waiting for blood results.

Now CAMHS have been hopeless but so has the GP who hasn't been helpful. Around all this is emerging a self employed counselling industry that is worrying due to desperation and lack of regulation. There is another charitable tier offering variable advice in the form of Young Minds, Heads Together, etc..

The present situation suggests significant issues about the provision of MH support for young people. Their needs are not being met and their is no joined up system of support.

If this was all about parenting my eldest would be suffering too I imagine. If it was all about parenting my DD wouldn't have led a charmed and ideal life to date. My DD is unwell - identifying high quality diagnosis and treatment has been extremely challenging. We have managed it quite quickly because we are privileged. It has nearly broken me.

[smileyforest]

Yes , I agree with you Ripen, MH services for our young adolescents is dispicable. It is a fight , when you see your child desperately ill, you want treatment, care, understanding....the same way a newly diagnosed diabetic or asthmatic would receive care. CAHMS isn't all about parenting (don't get that) , my 17yr old son is my youngest and other three gave not needed MH referrals. CAHMS should be there, acting, treating, etc....its a big Team. I have a good Team where I am, just would like daily intervention, my son dosent need to take up a hospital bed that would make his condition worse, I'm thinking AD may be needed but my son won't take meds, with daily intervention, a lot more could be learnt about my son so the right treatment could be administered, and he could possibly be given the understanding and trust for him to medically understand that medication could help. He is a bright lad. Undiagnosed Aspergers, took weed to mask those problems, ( no more) suffering the consequences ( thts another story).Yes its heartbreaking. The GPS are not a good source as many are not trained or interested in MH.

[anotherbusymum14]

For Sharon: actually CAHMS is a place to start and somewhere to at least get advice. Teenagers are just that, teenagers, but some teenagers have a hard time and can have depression and other things (it can be hereditary). Help, in the form of talking or at least being understood, can help our children and if we can get help as parents on how to support our children as they go through this issue then it's better than just throwing up our arms and saying "let's wait and see". Let's see what our children make of depression. Let's see how well they fare. Nope. Personally I don't think so.

[mummytime]

I'd also love to know where the idea "counselling is useless after 7" comes from.

I'd say strictly counselling is pretty useless much before 7, as children don't have the language or emotional vocabulary/understanding to express their feeling much before this age. That is why play therapy can be so valuable, as it can enable children to express things they can't in other ways.

Around here CAHMS is one of the pathways to an ASD diagnosis, in some areas it is the only one. GPs cannot diagnose ASD.

If CAHMS main task is to educate parents then it is failing my DD, as I don't see them, my DD does (and it seems to be helping).

[Mindy50]

I'm in same position with my son. Depression. Self harm and attempted suicide. We have our first appointment on Monday at cahms. But initially I had to constantly ring them to get to this point. Watch this space.

[Ripeningapples]

With love to all.

[smileyforest]

Yes, love to all. If my son dosent receive the help he needs....not happening at present, I will take it further!

[Guiltypleasures001]

Op if your in the Cambs area get in touch with centre 33 or the Ymca the Ymca will probably have
Counsellors in your area too.

There are charities around that will see your ds I'm so sorry your dealing with this its not good enough, Camh should be seeing him for the suicidal ideation alone and self harm.

He's isolating himself and there's aspects of social phobia, this is way beyond introspective and shy, the possible eating disorder is about control as is the self harm and inability to express his anguish.

Google counselling charities in your area and see if they can fit him in, if your in the Cambs area give me a shout in pm.

[Mindy50]

I am going through the same and it feels like theirs no end in sight and im afraid to leave my son as his moods are do irratic. He has tried an overdose and self harms. Waiting on cahms. But I have rung them each time he is suicidal which seems to have moved him up the list to be seen.