guess who it is again!!!!

[starlover]

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Ok... have been using the domperidone with fantastic results.

Now the problem is that DS is just refusing POINT BLANK to b/f. If I so much as SHOW him a boob he screams!!!

I have thought about just not giving him a bottle. GOing cold turkey and just keep offering breast.... but am scared he will just scream and scream and not take anything.

Is it a reeeeeeeeally bad idea... or could it work? I am trying to offer the breast at each feed, and even between feeds... but to no avail...

Any other ideas?

[JennyWren]

Thank Starlover! I did eventually get my thread started - two feeds and three pumps later! Please let me know if you have a breakthrough! I'm going to try Mears' rebirthing suggestion tomorrow - keep your fingers crossed for us!

[chipmonkey]

They get very stubborn at this age starlover! ds3 is eventually taking the bottle but nearly had to starve him into it. He will also not take the bottle in the living-room because thats where I bf him, have to go to dh's study!

[starlover]

oh hijack away! i am always doing it to other peoples threads!!!

[JennyWren]

Hi. I don't want to hjghjack this thread, but I am having a really similar problem and I'd so appreciate some help. I'm going to start a new thread - could you help me too?

Thanks,
JennyWren

[starlover]

at the moment i am using a medela lactaline which i am hiring (at exorbitant cost!)...
i have 2 sets of bottles and the bit you put on the breast though, as i also have a medela mini electric pump.
and i have an avent isis hand pump.
it DOES make it so much easier having 3 things on the go.

I think when i was doing this first time round it was easier because apart from having dp at home, i had no expectations from anyone else. I never had to go out and do stuff. it's so difficult isn't it.

have written myself out an action plan... and will ask dp tonight about taking time off work.

am so glad to hear that it can be done though maisiemog!

[Maisiemog]

Hi Starlover, joining the thread late to add some moral support and a bit of advice.
I know how you feel. I had to express for the first two months as bf was a bit hit and miss. My ds wouldn't latch 50% of the time and refused the breast as well. I reckon you should get dp to take a bit more time off work, just to help things bed in. I'm sure you will turn the corner soon and then you won't need to express, but it's important to keep it up so that your milk supply is stimulated.
Stuff the housework though.
To be honest - I use cloth nappies, but I would buy eco-disps as a temp measure to get breastfeeding going - feeding would win hands down for me, if I had to choose.
Expressing is a pain though and the more you hate it the worse it gets.
I used the medela feeding cup as well, which is supposed to keep the tongue in the correct position for bf - very messy though.
I've got some cups somewhere if you want one, but you can buy them online for just under £5 for 10.
I don't know if this will help, but my routine was - every three hours (from end of last feed) massage, hand express a little bit, try with breast a max of 5 times (to stop stressing baby), feed with ebm and maybe topup with formula, do breastpump for 20 mins. Nightmare! But it did work. Exclusively breast fed from about week 10 or 12 (can't quite remember). Now weaning and bf only.
Bathing together does work, if you do it every day, plus its very relaxing.
I know I'm being slow, but what pump are you using? You can save time if you have two or three sterilising, less faffing.
Also took herbal tinctures from Napiers which worked really well: Alfalfa and Goat's Rue.

[Hazellnut]

My turn now SL to get my own back on you stalking me

No Advice at all (and after all you have the experts here !), cos as you know, I never managed to get dd to breastfeed and spent quite a while expressing in the early days but just to say, please try and not feel guilty if it doesn't work - you've done a great job bf-ing Linus so far. Hopefully all the advice might work but if not it doesn't seem to be doing the gorgeous one any harm !! Also doesn't seem to have done my gorgeous one any harm either - I felt really guilty for a while until I looked at it objectively and realised she was doing so well (if I could work out how I would post a piccie to show you !!)

Good luck anyway and enjoy your snuggles with Linus.

[starlover]

he did a few days ago... but when he realised what he'd done he started screaming! LOL

I have to say, i am feeling a bit more positive having read the stuff in that link. Especially about relactation, and the face that you can b/f an adopted child!!! If someone can do that then surely I can do this!

I have no plans for mon and tues coming up... so will have at least 2 days to relax a bit with DS.

He is ok being held by the breast now, and will tolerate it near his mouth but not in it...
i think partly of the problem is that i am too impatient... i want instant results.
You already know that he was bottlefed for over a week when he was born, and i kept trying him at the breast each feed time and one day he just took it!... i think i was expecting it to work like that again!

[mears]

You know that doesn't sound like a bad idea Starlover, seeing if DH get time off work. You do need help to be able to keep up with this demanding schedule. Does DS ever go to the breast at all?

[starlover]

yeah we do snuggle up for feeds (most of the time).. i have been holding the bottle by my boob, so that he is in an almost b/f position when he has it.

thanks for that link mears... am just reading through it...

i think that part of the problem is just lack of time. i feel like i have so much to do... the house is a mess, dentist appts, baby clinic... etc etc...

i am just finding it impossible to have enough time to be expressing every 3 hours, plus feeding ds, spending some time with him, doing the housework. DP is working long hours so can't help that much.
I will admit i am no domestic goddess... but even just doing the bare minimum (washing nappies etc) seems to take up so much time!

I have such a problem motivating myself to express. when i was doing it before ds had only just been born and DP was at home so he MADE me do it... have been thinking about seeing if he can get some time off work to give me a hand,

it all seems so extreme!

[mears]

this link might help

[mears]

|link{http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html\this link might help}

[tiktok]

You can still do all the snuggly things with the bottle!! I wish people would - it would soften the blow sometimes, because that's what they miss sometimes ie the idea of the closeness, not the health benefits which you can't really see or feel!

Expressing is a total bore, I agree. It leaves very little room for a life

It's not possible to say if you can drop formula, or at what rate - this is so individual. Some people decide to give themselves a couple of days off from angsting about it - just feed him in a way that keeps him happy, give him the same cuddles and snuggles as you would if you were bf, and then see what you feel like after that. It might clear up for you a bit, if you take some deserved time out from worrying about it.

[starlover]

thanks tiktok... i just get so tired of never being able to go out because i have to express.
He's been on bottle now for about 6 weeks I think, so I don't think he really will go back on the breast tbh.

i was expressing every 2 hours at one point, and my supply still didn't increase... i think i have just lost faith in the whole thing!

it sucks because i feel so guilty for stopping b/f... it's like i had it all right and then i stopped. And even though DS is very healthy and happy and how he is fed is hardly the most important thing in the world it still upsets me because I had planned to breastfeed and now i can't! iyswim

I don't want to just say this is it, i'm giving up... because then i will regret it... i don't think i know what i want really! I did just have some skin to skin time with him and he fell asleep snuggled into me.

I think also, i am unsure what to do if i do get him back on the boob. Do i drop bottle completely and just keep feeding him til my supply increases? or do i b/f and then top up with formula?

[tiktok]

star, only you can decide when enough is enough....but it will take time, and you may need to do several co-bathing sessions (don't force him....the point of the co-bathing is not to 'get him to feed' but to enable him to do so relaxed and happy, if he shows signs. Just chillin' out next to the breast without crying is a step forward). Expressing only works to build supply if it is done 6-8 times min a day - anything less, and the milk suppply dwindles. Skin to skin is more of a 'lifestyle change' than a thing to do to test it for a bit.....your little one may need skin to skin for hours for days, to recreate his good feelings at the breast.

I don't think the presence of the drug will make any difference to his sickiness on ebm, BTW.

It is so hard, and you may decide it is too hard. Either way, you have to do what feels right for you, and we will support you!

[starlover]

yeah tried bathing, and skin-to-skin. I only stopped taking the domperidone for one day and have gone from getting 160ml a time, to about 90!

I was able to express enough for about 3 bottles a day... but so far I have only made 1.5 bottles today.

I don't know really what to do. I can't take keep expressing, it's doing my head in. Plus, I am using a hospital pump which is costing loads of money.
I tried hand expressing but wasn't very sucessful.

He is still refusing breast, but will try him again with a bottle teat perhaps. I did try to trick him by slipping boob in mid-feed... but he just screamed!

I am jsut paranoid now that I am not ever going to produce enough milk. The other thing is that while I was on the domperidone he seemed to be quite sicky on the ebm i gave him... but now i stopped taking it he is fine... so don't really want to keep on with it if it's making him ill!

Argh, i know it sounds like i am just making excuses for it... but i do really want to b/f.. it just seems so unattainable right now though.

If i am doing skin-to-skin, or having a bath with him and he refuses breast, should i just give him his bottle?

[mears]

You can take more Domperidone if you felt it helped. Agree with Tiktok, it will take time. Are you giving feeds from a bottle? If so, have you tried starting feed with bottle then slipping it out and offering breast instead? Ideally it would be best to avoid bottles altogether and give EBM by cup but that is something you feel you do not want to start now. Have you contacted a B/F counsellor? Did you try feeding in the bath? Did you try a few days of skin-to-skin in bed?

Something which had success in the old days but maybe worth a try just to get used to being near the breast was holding bottle teat over nipple to get baby sucking, then slipping it away if possible. Wondered if that might be an option since nipple shields were rejected.

[tiktok]

star - you asked again on Monday and Tuesday how to persuade him to go back to the breast, but mears and I had made some suggestions two days before. It is likely to take a few days of these before you can be sure they are not working. Try them and see

[pupuce]

What about feeding EBM by bottle?

[starlover]

urgh... stopped taking the domperidone and milk supply has dropped right back down again. So looks like this is it!

I feel really sad again now

[starlover]

yeah, didn't get on with them at all. ds didn't mind them being there... but couldn't latch on properly as they were sooooooooooooo long!

[chipmonkey]

starlover, did you ever try nipple shields?

[starlover]

what confuses me is that he KNOWS how to b/f... and he knows there is milk there... but he just won;'t take it!

How do I persuade him to latch on???

[JulieF]

Sorry in a huge rush so will answer in full later but it was refusal from 5 days old. My bfc advised not to give a bottle until he had learnt to b/f which is why I used the special infant feeding cups.

It was a long process lasting a month until he started to feed effectively using lots of different techniques, none of which seemed to work at first but evebntually it all; clicked.

Will post more later.

[starlover]

julief... what did you do to get him to latch on?
i can calm ds down so that he is in position and being reasonably content... but the moment i try and get it in his mouth it's all screaming again!