"Bottle-fed babies being put 'at risk' due to lack of information for mothers" - says the Telegraph, missing the point SPECTACULARLY

[hunkermunker]

"The obsession with promoting breastfeeding could be putting babies health at risk as mothers are not being given enough information about how to bottle feed their children, according to researchers."

Or, how about - midwives and health visitors are often not able to support breastfeeding well enough due to a lack of training and perhaps, just perhaps, the answer is not giving more information about bottlefeeding (because that's clearly not what the mothers want to do), it's giving better training to health professionals and raising awareness in mothers of how to tell that their babies are feeding effectively?

I see Clare Byam-Cook is spouting her drivel again. When will the papers quote someone who actually knows about bf?!

As for this:

"One midwife described the situation as "two-tier care" because breastfeeding mothers are given "wholehearted support", while bottle feeders were "left to it"."

Really? If this is the case, why aren't more women bfing at six weeks?

Of COURSE I am for safe bottlefeeding and women being shown how to make up feeds safely if they want to bottlefeed - but saying that the answer to women not breastfeeding for as long as they want is to show them how to make up bottles - seriously, how dense do you have to be to think that?!

[MummyDragon]

I haven't posted on a BF/FF thread on MN before, but I do have a point I'd like to make, which is this:

Based on what I've read on MN over the past couple of years, there is obviously a huge difference in all types of feeding support that's provided by the NHS, and this seems to be dependent on the individual NHS trust/maternity unit/midwife/HV etc.

For example, contrary to many posters on here, I have never received any leaflets or help from the NHS re. how to formula feed. In fact, I have always come under pressure to breastfeed, unlike some of you whose experience seems to have been the opposite. When I told the midwives in the delivery unit that I planned to FF DS, I was told, "oh that's not what we recommend, breastfeed him now and see how you feel in the morning," accompanied by a hand (not mine!) reaching down my top for my boob. Now, I didn't exactly feel that that was supportive, and I slapped the hand away pretty quickly. (Far worse things happened that night, inlcuding my baby being put on my breast while I was asleep - this by a nursing assistant who couldn't help me walk to the loo after my epidural because I might fall and injure her!!!!!).

When pregnant with both my DCs, I was asked at my booking-in appointment by the midwife ( a different midwife each time) how I planned to feed the DCs. Both times I answered "formula feed." And both times, she wrote "plans to breastfeed" on the front of my notes.

I should add that English is my first language and I do not have a speech impediment, so there was no reason for this - erm - misunderstanding!

I guess what I'm saying is, women need to be supported in whatever choice they make. I was certainly not supported at all; luckily I am able to read instructions on the back of a packet of formula, and to find advice on the internet on how to sterilise bottles etc. My own experience was of strong pressure to breastfeed, and no support for formula feeding. I was told several times that formula feeding would result in me feeling like a bad mother!!!!!

Just wanted to share my experience, and to say how much I like and admire LuluMaman's stance on this . Let's support each other, not demonise each other! Women deserve advice and support no matter how they choose to feed their children, and let's remember that it is a woman's choice - formula feeding is not illegal! (And no, I don't want to start a thread on whether it should be!).

I don't demonoise breastfeeders; it's your choice and your right to feed your baby with breastmilk. Please don't judge or demonise my own, legitimate choice. Thank you.

[GirlsAreLoud]

"Far worse things happened that night, inlcuding my baby being put on my breast while I was asleep"





for you MummyDragon.

[SouthMum]

Sorry just coming back to this (had a dinner related emergency)

Moondog - it was the way she snerred at me, if she had been matter of fact and said something like "are you sure you don't just want more support" or something like that, something understanding rather than making out I was a bad person. It was just pretty unprofessional and just.....the wrong way to go about things IYSWIM?

[StealthBearWipesBumOnDailyMail]

MummyDragon - you should have reported both the boob grope and the latching on (sorry just have to ask are you sure your baby didn't latch on himself if you were co sleeping?)
You sound very pragmatic but I think at worst they would be considered assault.
When did all this happen?
FWIW I think staff should be trained (I mean this is happening but they're obviously not all trained) to be hands off when helping women feed - my MW certainly was

[moondog]

Ok, I've got you.
A lot of people on MN talk about 'being sneered at' or getting 'dirty looks' in real life. Do you think this really happens or do you think people imagine it?

[moondog]

I'm talking about breast and bottle feeders.

Oh, and Southmum, would you have wanted her to tell you about the increased risks associated with bottle feeding?

[jimbobsmummy]

Well in my case I would have liked someone to have discussed the risks of breastfeeding - ie that my baby who clearly ouldn't latch on was becoming dry and yellow and risked needing further intervention. Instead, they just wanted to keep me in hospital longer to keep on trying unsuccessfully and with no support (despite what they said they would do)

Everyone was so hung up on the potential 'risks of formula' (which personally I think are minimal) that they completely ignored the very real immediate risk to my baby.

If someone had said to me 'look your baby needs topping up. But don't worry, it is perfectly possible to mix feed for now and continue breastfeeding, we'll help you do it'
then I would have felt much happier. But instead I was given no support at all, and was told that if I gave a bottle (despite having no choice) then I would inevitably have to stop breastfeeding.

I felt terrible about it.

But fortunately I am intelligent and determined enough to look into it myself and realised that mixed feeding is perfectly possible and so 15 weeks later I am still breastfeeding. It isn't all or nothing and the focus on this resulted in terrible care and me feeling bad.

[oneopinionatedmother]

i think this just highlights that women are not well supported in feeding newborn babies, personal choices are not respected, time is not taken to ensure mother and baby are ok. That goes for both sides. However, Moondog has a point - as a health professional they should make sure you understand the possible consequences of your choice.

i think for me i was horrified when i saw studies done finding 10 average iq point differences (not slight or insignificant IMO) between BF and FF babies - are FF mums who decide to FF pre-birth told about that? Or does the health professional assume you have done your research (unlikely in most cases, i think). rather than relying on your mums/friends opinion that is.

for me i would have been horrified to have not got BF working (yes, no useful help given, MW definitely didn't give a toss..) then look at articles such as this

i might add i was totally unaware of any differences beyond the generic'its healthier' blurb pre-birth.

also- if i was passed out in hospital post-natally, i'd have been perfectly ok with my baby being latched on for me - grateful even. If your notes didn't reflect your choice - why didn't you get them corrected?

my MW had put 'hospital birth' which i had corrected to HB, then i made sure my papework had gone to hosp reflecting that (finding at 40 wks that it hadn't) - sometimes our choices aren't heeded and we have to push for them.

[MissHairspray]

Yes it is horrible to have not managed to BF and read articles like that. In fact after my bf disaster I don't know why I come on these threads as they usually make me feel worse, but hey ho, here I am.

Jimbobsmumy - same thing happened to me. Bf wasn't working like it was supposed to and what I needed with a baby who wouldn't latch on was a practical solution and info on mix feeding, not the whole 'don't give bottles as you will never get it sorted'. Not great when you are desperate to leave hospital after 3 days and still haven't managed to give your baby a proper feed.

[alexpolismum]

oneopiniatedmother - the article in your link is saying that the babies who received enriched formula did better overall, not the breastfed babies. Why would that article make anyone feel upset for not breastfeeding?

[Qally]

Well, I read it, and it explicitly states that breastfeeding is best, and why. It even gives MN a positive shout-out, which after the mauling she got on her request thread is rather graceful - certainly not Daisy Goodwin, is she? And there are a slew of links to the left of the article, all emphasising breast is best.

I absolutely agree that there need to be concerted efforts to improve bf training - I had 13 people try to help me bf. Almost all bloody useless, particularly the allegedly "trained", especially as most missed that he physically couldn't. I was lucky and had plenty of milk, so gave EBM till 8 months, but it was only a couple of weeks ago that Tiktok warned me that follow-on milk is not the same as infant formula, with the added info that prebiotics aren't probiotics. I was told they were all the same by a midwife, who said it was all a con to get around the advertising ban and to just opt for the cheapest, and I was happy to trust her. Unfortunately the things that aren't the same include salt and protein levels. I was using the ready made stuff because I didn't want to risk powder, and as HIPP don't make ready-made infant formula, just follow-on and "growing-up" , my mistake could have been a lot worse, had I been ff ds earlier. I'm educated to post-grad level, but I trusted a piece of formula misinformation to the point that it could have been dangerous to my baby. That's a serious problem, just as the dreadful support available to mothers who want to breastfeed is. Of course it's sub-optimal to formula feed, but given that such a baby is already getting less than they need, isn't it a good idea to at least make formula non-lethal, by stressing that you use either premade, or boiling water and discard any unused? Most people still think it's okay to make them all up a day in advance, and I've seen that advocated here repeatedly, with the defensive, "well, I did it for all mine and they're fine!" whenever challenged.

Nobody in my hospital is shown how to make up a feed, because the hospital simply dispense the ready-made mini bottles with separately packaged sterile teats. I doubt most people can afford to use those for 6 months at home, and I can imagine plenty of people trust their mothers to make up the feeds the first day or so - who will ignore any nonsense on the packaging about making each one up fresh, because the packaging doesn't mention that milk powder can be lethal if the germs aren't killed first. At the moment we have a massive campaign to tell women they have to breastfeed or they're letting down their babies, without much help worthy of the name on how to achieve it. Clearly the way forward long term is to change that, so the majority, who do want to bf, can be supported in what is best for their baby and themselves, but for those women who currently have to resort to formula, or who simply choose to ff for whatever reasons, isn't it better that they are given information? As it stands, everyone is let down equally - decrying support given in one area isn't about to increase it on the other. And frankly, being told the risks of ff just in terms of contamination strengthened my resolve to feed ebm - if all women knew that ebm can be kept at room temp for 6 hours, and for a week in the fridge, but that formula has to be made up fresh for every feed at near to boiling point, or it can actively be dangerous to your child, perhaps a few more, like me, would persist and persist with trying to bf. The true facts on formula and safety aren't "convenient" at all. Making that known is not advocation. At all. In fact it's rather the opposite.

As to trusting packaging - if you did that, you'd be feeding HIPP Goodnight, or putting that baby cereal into bottles, or weaning at 4 months. It's inconsistent to castigate packaging, which people here frequently do, and then say better information isn't called for because people can just read that packaging. The article doesn't deny the fact that breast-feeding is best, it doesn't touch the nonsense and misquotation of the recent spate of articles saying it isn't: it firmly sets out that bf is superior, and why. But it also points out the fact that most women are still formula feeding, and if they're not given help to make sure that's as safe as possible, babies will get ill - and some may even die. You can't stop that happening by denying ff mothers the information on how to feed safely on the grounds that all info should be breast-centred - or you can, but it's not helping either group. BOTH need better than they're getting now.

[RortyDogOfTheRemove]

Good old Telegraph!

[weegiemum]

When I had my first dd - eek, over 9 years ago - I was in hospital 4 days due to hard ventouse delivery and the unit being half empty ....

I managed to establish bf well from the word go - no idea why, I didn't get much support - but when I was being discharged the midwife said I wasn't 'allowed' to leave until I had had the tutorial on making up bottles!

I left anyway.

But they passed my 'problem' with learning about bottles on to the HV, who also came, weighed dd1 (who was gaining right along her 98th centile path!!) and then told me I would 'never' manage to feed such a big baby (she was just shy of 10lb) on my own and should get her 'used' to a bottle before I 'got into difficulties'.

I asked her never to come back and didn't see her with my other 2 children.

[MummyDragon]

Stealth - no, co-sleeping "not allowed" at that hospital ...!!! When the staff found me cuddling my baby in the middle of the night, they took him out of my arms and put him back in the cot, saying that there was a risk I would fall asleep and squash him. Plus I was wearing a cropped-top-style bra and t-shirt so there's no way he could have latched on himself!

Really - mothers cuddling their own babies - whatever next??!!!

[MummyDragon]

oneopinionatedmother - I did correct my notes, but the point is that the midwives did not listen to me, and did not accurately record what I had said. Not everyone is as pushy or opinionated as me (or you?! ) and might not have realised that this "mistake" had happened.

[MummyDragon]

Great post Qally

[CinnabarRed]

Excellent post Qally.

1. I was very keen to BF when I had DS. I received excellent BF'ing support both in hospital and from my local NHS funded BF'ing drop-in clinic. I can't praise my hospital, HV, MW and the drop-in clinic enough. I was clearly very lucky.

1. As a direct result, DS and I established BF'ing with the minimum of fuss and were very content.

1. DS was exclusively BF for 13 weeks.

1. At that time, I fell ill. DP was working abroad at the time, our families are many miles away and we had only just moved house, so I was effectively unsupported. My milk dried up almost entirely - when I expressed all that came was horrible, watery, grey yuck. DS was beyond distraught, feeding hourly, slipping into fitful sleep, only waking again an hour later screaming for more sustenence than I could provide. It was, without a shadow of a doubt, the most emotionally difficult time of my life (which includes divorce and my father's suicide).

1. My lovely HV happened to visit while I was ill. She realised that DS was getting dangerously dehydrated and under-nourished, and, without hesitating, fetched him formula. He drank his first enormous bottle without stopping, and then slept for 6 hours. I don't think that the HV saved his life, that's too dramatic, but I don't know how much longer we could have continued as we were.

1. When I got a little better, I revisited the drop-in BF'ing clinic. My milk supply was not come back as it had been, but I was producing something. They explained to me that I could probably re-establish BF if I wanted to, but that in their opinion it would only be possible if I stopped FF (to encourage more milk production) and that DS might have a tough time for a few days. On that basis, I decided to continue with FF. I was very grateful for impartial advice that allowed me to make an informed decision. I don't regret that decision in our circumstances, although I do regret that I couldn't continue BF'ing.

1. But at no point did anyone explain how to FF safely. To my mind, that was a terrible omission.

1. As with others on this thread, I worked it out how to FF safely by myself. I do criticise the information on the formula packaging because it doesn't explain WHY it's so important to make up formula with boiling water, or WHY batches can't be made in advance, or WHY sterlilising is so important. I find that when people understand the logic then they stop doing risky things (like using hot water from the tap, FGS).

1. At no point has anyone ever faulted my feeding method - I didn't get snide comments or evil looks while BF'ing or FF'ing in public. Not once.

10. [Here I slip into opinion rather than proven fact] Although I certainly agree that breast is best, I also agree with jimbobsmummy that the risks of formula are not that great WHEN DONE PROPERLY. I also agree with Qally that both BF'er AND FF'ers deserve access to better support. Until we have impartial support for all then these articles will inflame the debate.

[sabire]

All mothers are given the Birth to Five book when they are pregnant with their first aren't they? And doesn't it have very clear information on it about making up bottlefeeds?

Personally I would be very much against all mothers being routinely given information on making up bottlefeeds - this is only needed if the mother is bottlefeeding. It would be very undermining for a bf mother to be made to feel as though this is something she needs to know.

CinnabarRed - with respect, I can't agree that people stop doing risky things with bottlefeeds when they are given a clear rationale for making up feeds correctly. Try lurking on the Bounty bottlefeeding board for a bit and you'll see what I mean. I can't tell you the number of posts I've seen on that board from people who think that any talk of salmonella or e-sakazakii is breastfeeding gestapo fear mongering, and that the 'tried and tested ways' (ie making up all your feeds in advance and storing them) is completely harmless.

[CinnabarRed]

Haven't looked on the Bounty website, sabire, but am very happy to accept your word rather than waste my time reading rubbish advice that isn't even relevant to me anymore! TBH, I never even thought to look for information in my copy of Birth To Five.

How depressing that anyone thinks there's a BF gestapo, let alone one that would dripfeed (excuse the pun ) misinformation to FF'ers. My experience has always been of mothers trying to do their best for their LOs in differing circumstances.

Just reinforces Qally's view that impartial advice is needed for all new mothers (and also those who, like, me swap from BF to FF at some point).

[sabire]

My NCT teacher made a point of doing this swc (I mean - handing out a leaflet and pointing out how important it was to make up bottlefeeds correctly. She also flagged up various sources of information on this issue, including threads on mumsnet on the issue of sterilising and making up feeds correctly!).

[Gilby]

Erm..might as well throw my tuppence worth in: I work with a lot of mums and yes, of course most mums would prefer to breastfeed. However I have heard mums tell stories about going to HV and midwives and breastfeeding cafes and posting on mumsnet and trying everything they can to make breastfeeding successful and getting to the brink of PND before starting to bottle feed. The guilt they feel due to the accusations of not trying hard enough, and the knowledge that breast is best, is awful. In addition, there really is very little bottle feeding info out there. I'm breastfeeding right now (exclusively) and have been inundated by breastfeeding info leaflets, counsellors, cafes etc (which is great) but a NCT friend who has had to give up due to medical reasons has been floundering due to lack of info.
So yes, I think CBC phrased it badly but she has a point- it's not the obsession with breastfeeding that's putting babies' health at risk but the fact that when breast feeding fails there is too little support out there for women.
There you go...

[duchesse]

I've just been through the bundle of notes supplied by my midwife in preparation for my homebirth (but presumably exactly the same as given out in hospital). Alongside the postnatal notes booklets is an extremely detailed booklet with colour pictures produced by the NHS (so not just my hospital trust) and words in large bold type for crucial detail explaining how to make up bottles and sterilise equipment.

Inside the baby's postnatal notes are several pages on baby care, including a whole A4 page about bottle feeding, which includes a checklist for midwives when explaining how to do it, and half an A4 page on breast feeding.

I really fail to see how mothers are not being properly informed how to formula feed safely. I can't imagine the NHS would go to the trouble of printing tens of thousands of colour leaflets about FFing and then hide them.

This whole issue smacks of silly season journalism to me.