"Bottle-fed babies being put 'at risk' due to lack of information for mothers" - says the Telegraph, missing the point SPECTACULARLY

[hunkermunker]

"The obsession with promoting breastfeeding could be putting babies health at risk as mothers are not being given enough information about how to bottle feed their children, according to researchers."

Or, how about - midwives and health visitors are often not able to support breastfeeding well enough due to a lack of training and perhaps, just perhaps, the answer is not giving more information about bottlefeeding (because that's clearly not what the mothers want to do), it's giving better training to health professionals and raising awareness in mothers of how to tell that their babies are feeding effectively?

I see Clare Byam-Cook is spouting her drivel again. When will the papers quote someone who actually knows about bf?!

As for this:

"One midwife described the situation as "two-tier care" because breastfeeding mothers are given "wholehearted support", while bottle feeders were "left to it"."

Really? If this is the case, why aren't more women bfing at six weeks?

Of COURSE I am for safe bottlefeeding and women being shown how to make up feeds safely if they want to bottlefeed - but saying that the answer to women not breastfeeding for as long as they want is to show them how to make up bottles - seriously, how dense do you have to be to think that?!

[Nighbynight]

I think Penthesilia hits the nail on the head.

[LuluMaman]

if it was as simple as reading the instructions , how come there are plenty of threads on here asking for advice in making up bottles correctly? or new mothers being confused by the advice ? or second/third time mothers posting for help as the guidelines have changed and they don;t know the safest way to make up a bottle

i was discharged from hospital both times, having said i was going to bottle feed, with no information and no MW or anyone showing me what to do.

i think that it is not necessary to belittle women who formula feed , adn tell them 'read the insturctions' when they probably have other friends and family saying;'it;s not how we did it in my day'

surely something as important as feeding your baby should be given some time from HCPs whether it is bottle of breast and i` have acknowledged that breast feeding support is more complicated than bottle

but i think it is a bit remiss to dismiss anyone wanting help with bottle feeding safely, by telling them to read the tin.

[LuluMaman]

but i do absolutely agree with pentheselia and faintlymacabre and stealth et al

but i think that safe bottle feeding is important

and also bear in mind the number of threads on here about

what size teat?
what shape bottle?
which bottle/teat for mixed feeding?
when can i give follow on milk/hungry baby milk?
how many ounces should by baby be taking? is it too much/too little?
how do i make up feeds safely when out and about?

[Penthesileia]

Yes, fair enough, LuluMaman. You are always the voice of compassionate reason on these kinds of threads.

But I think there is an issue of people weighing up the risks and deciding to do it their way, despite knowing what the current guidelines are. I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that. We do see it quite a lot on MN threads.

However, you are quite right that if women are seeking advice and support, they should get it. Thing is though, the NHS does give this support, and it's false to claim it doesn't.

[LuluMaman]

thank you penthiselia


i did not breastfeed, and the lack of support still irks years later. i try to make up for it in some way by helping my clients breastfeed and supporting them.

the lack of support is terrible

the lack of consistency is terrible

I did not know about LLL, ABM or NCT until I joined up here and I had asked for BF support from my MW when DD was 4 days old and my milk came in and i was desperate to feed. i got no help apart from 'she's setteld on the bottle and it iwll be really hard to get her on the breast'

end of advice!

i do thikn this inference that bottle feedig mothers are being let down or hindered by breastfeeding support absolutely laughable, and sad

[Penthesileia]

Arguably, a lot of the teat size/which shape bottle/which follow on, etc. is INDUSTRY generated, ie. the ff industry wants you to chop and change your products all the time to make them more money. And people, as consumers, are pre-programmed to believe that they should be "shopping around" for the best, most individual product for them and their baby. The capitalisation of baby-feeding has led to a false sense that you can "choose" individual "programmes" (which teat, which bottle, etc, etc) for your baby, and - as is often the case - the illusion of choice gives people anxiety, as they want to choose the "right one". However, while I'm sure that certain products do suit certain babies better, etc., I expect, on the whole, it's pretty much whatever they start out with, IYSWIM. Who is going to listen to the NHS saying "don't spend a lot of money on fancy guff". Etc.

E.g. the whole "choosing a bottle that cures your baby's colic" - this is an evil illusion of choice, IMO. The bottle feeding industry takes advantage of the fact that some babies suffer from what is essentially an incurable and unexplained condition, and encourage mums to spend a lot of money on "special" bottles to cure it.

[StealthBearWipesBumOnDailyMail]

Definitely lulu I agree the support should be there, I just disagree with the tone of the article that institutionally it is not!

Teats, shape bottle etc I think is advice that family/friends/MNers should give in a similar way to which breast pads, which breast pump etc.

[LuluMaman]

Y Y to that!

there should be one type of formula only and a couple of types of teats /bottles

but it is a huge marketing profit generating juggernaut that needs consumers to keep consuming and believe in the science of what is being offered.

debunking it all is an uphill struggle and it makes things needlessly complicated

don't get me started on freaking night time milk!

[StealthBearWipesBumOnDailyMail]

no, start on the gin - I think it tastes much nicer

[SouthMum]

I didn't get any support when I told the HV I wanted to stop BF and start FF for my own reasons. I got a dirty look and a huffy "you do know you are putting your baby at risk of disease / exzcema (sp?) / obesity / etc by FF don't you? Oh well if you are willing to risk it...."

I asked her advice about making up FF (as I had been told by many people about diff. shortcuts nd wasnt sure if any were safe) but as I wasn't BF anymore she wasn't interested in me. She muttered something about she thinks there is a leaflet about making up bottles somewhere but not many women FF because breast is best so they don't carry them around.

I'll be honest I now have a VERY jaded opinion of pro-BFers and have gone from thinking I would definitely try and BF my next baby successfully, but there again I'd rathe rnot go through the shitty attitude again if I change my mind so might be best to FF from the outset.

[Penthesileia]

Agree, Cyradis.

As I've said, however, what sticks in my craw is that the lack of support for FF-ers is made out to be the fault of the BF-ing campaign!

Imagine if this article could've been written without mentioning BF-ing at all. Wouldn't that've been better? The simple statement: FF-ing mothers need clear impartial advice about feeding their babies (although, as I've said, the NHS does give out this information). WTF does it have to do with BF-ing? DYSWIM?

[SouthMum]

or should I say I have a VERY jaded opinionof militant pro-BFers, not the 'usual' ones who don't shove it in your face (pardon the pun)

[StealthBearWipesBumOnDailyMail]

that was a shitty attitude SouthMum. She should ahve answered your questions or pointed you to somewhere more appropriate (as I'd expect my MW to do if I asked which breast pads she recommended).
Please don't let it put you off though - any chance you can see a less arsey HV this time?

[Penthesileia]

SouthMum - your HV was out of order, and should've given you the advice you sought. But to have a jaded opinion of all pro-BFers... A bit extreme, no?

I like to eat chocolate. A lot. Every day! Doesn't mean I have a jaded opinion of someone telling me I ought to eat more healthily.

You were let down by one HV. That's awful. At least you are more aware now and armed to find info for yourself.

[StealthBearWipesBumOnDailyMail]

Please see tiktok's posts for examples of a highly pro-bfer who has a lot of knowledge of infant feeding in general and is very helpful to both people with questions about bf and ff.

[SouthMum]

I probably would get a diff HV next time around as not planning to have another one for a little while anyway so hopefully that cow-bag will have got a different career in something to suit her sensitive nature - like a grave digger or in an abbatoir or something......

[Penthesileia]

Shit. My analogy was really bad (not at all implying that FF is like chocolate! ). Am dumbass.

Just saying that we are faced with advice and recommendations "for our own good" every day, and we have to negotiate our way through them the best way we can. DYSWIM?

[moondog]

13

[SouthMum]

Probably a bit extreme, but so was her reaction. Its only made me jaded because I probably wouldn't speak to someone I know is a very pro-BFer about feeding babies in general because I'd worry I'd get a lecture about BF. Not saying all pro-BFers are like that (as I know they are not) but as I say her attitude was pretty to me as I have a clean home, I love my DS and I had alot of family around for support, yet when I said I was going to FF she looked at me like I'd just it up a fag, cracked open a can of Tennants Extra and given DS a Greggs pasty.

[moondog]

South, it sounds like the HV didn't say these things very nicely but part of making an informed choice is knowing the risks that the choices we mak involve.

For example, I wanted the birth of me second child induced so dh couold be with me as he was aborad. MW pointed out risks involved with thsi and I decided not to have it. Baby arrived and dh did in fact miss it. I had made an informed choice and took responsibility for the outcome.

Would you rather she had not said these things?
Would you rather have had them in leaflet form?
Did you know this stuff anyway?
Do you ont belive what she said?

I am genuinely interested.

[Penthesileia]

"Probably a bit extreme, but so was her reaction." Yes, I'd say so. She owed it to you to give you the information you needed. She could, if she wanted to continue encouraging (not forcing, I hasten to add) you to BF have given you more gentle support along those lines too. It just takes tact and good people skills.

See, I don't think it is a bad thing that the NHS and its employees should be pro-BFing. There are many, many, many reasons why, if more babies were BF, it would be a good thing for the NHS. Therefore, they are obliged, IMO, to encourage it as much as possible, even - dare I say it - in the face of "opposition". Now, that is NOT AT ALL TO SAY that they should be snooty, aggressive, unkind, unhelpful, etc. etc. to women who ask for advice about FF-ing, etc.

But, like my healthy eating analogy (though again, I stress, I am not saying that FF is "unhealthy"), it is their professional obligation to promote the more approved lifestyle choice.

HOWEVER - all of this is conditional on there being good, clear, and competent advice for BF-ers. No good evangelising about BF-ing without helping people to do it.

[Jujubean77]

I didn't have one leaflet about FF until I specifically asked twice over I think. It was BF support all the way from PG.

I did BF for a few weeks though before it went pear shaped for loads of reasons I won't go into.

I always remember when my midwife learnt I wanted to BF she said "Clever girl". I honestly don't know to this day why she said that or what she hoped to achieve by it, but reading that article, well makes more sense now

[jimbobsmummy]

Southmum, I agree entirely with you.

Because of various issues I had to mix feed my baby from 48 hrs old by giving him top ups after feeds. The amount of help I got with that was none at all. Noone told me how to make up a bottle or sterilize it. They point blank refused to do so. They also refused to give me any formula to go home with for the night even though it was 9 pm on a sunday night. Noone advised me how to best go about feeding him so as to keep up breastfeeding. 'We aren't allowed to do so because of our baby friendly status'.

Baby friendly my arse quite frankly.

I'm still predominantly breastfeeding him at 15 weeks, but that is no thanks to any of the support I got - including LLL, NCT helplines, breastfeeding drop ins and several different counsellors in person.
But I got no support in giving formula either.