I'm in the seventh circle of breastfeeding hell......

[JetLi]

DD is 7 days old. Initial breastfeeding was good if painful. Morphine was used in labour and (I blame DP's genes) she is very, very laid back such that demand feeding would mean left to her own devices, she only fed every 6/7 hours which wasn't enough. Advised by midwife & breastfeeding counsellor to wake to feed every 3 hours which we tried, but she refused to latch on leading to both me and her getting increasingly distressed. We'd try for say an hour and then she'd end up with formula in an effort just to get something inside her.
Anyway to cut a long story short, my milk is in, the worst of the engorgement has passed, I'm now pumping - (I'm averaging around 60ml with a 30 minute pump, 15 minutes each side)and we're now feeding her 3 hourly with EBM via bottle and we're got plenty of wet/dirty nappies, and some weight gain and all around a very contented, lovely baby.
Sadly we can't say the same for Mummy because DD refuses entirely to entertain the breast and I feel like an utter shit because I've managed to create a whole nipple confusion thing now which didn't exist before. It's soul destroying. I'm trying to console myslef that she is at least getting breastmilk albeit by an unorthodox method, but how the heck can I re-introduce her love-affair with the breast? I offer at every other feed, after a bit of expressing so the breast is soft and pliable and the nipple is erect and milky, and I offer just for a few minutes, but the poor wee thing seems to be terrified of me and my boobs now and my confidence is at rock bottom. She'll maybe lap a bit at the nipple but then just stares up at me with such a petrified little face and starts to whimper that it breaks my heart. I've tried various positions to no avail.

Shall this too pass? I don't know what to do - breastfeeding counsellor is back on Wednesday and on Thursday we can go to the local drop-in, so help is coming but it seems a long way away and I don't know that time is on our side here.

And I feel so utterly inadequate DP is a great support, but I feel as though my daughter is frightened of me.

[idontbelieveit]

how helpful fern

JetLi - sounds like you're doing all the right things. You're doing amazingly well and I bet your dd will be back on the breast soon and this stress will be a distant memory.
Great advice on here already, just wanted to wish you luck.

[fishie]

how is it going jetli? you have bf counsellor coming back today i think you said.

ferncottage what a very unhelpful post.

[tiktok]

Ferncottage - I must have missed the announcement that it's not worth breastfeeding. Do share.

I know you can't be referring to the story in the Daily Mail/Times, which is such patent rubbish you will have dismissed it straight away, and which in any case said nothing about 'no benefits'.

You must be referring to something else - what can it be?

I feel very out of date - it's not like me to miss a crazy reversal of common sense like this.

[TheNatty]

JetLi u will beat this, and like others have said it will be a distant memory
i went thru hell first 2 weeks, just coming out the otherside now

[digitalgirl]

Jetli - it will get better. Sounds like you're doing all the right things. When my DS was born I was advised to top up with formula to flush out the jaundice. Overnight decided bottles were much better to breast and it took a good couple of weeks to get him back onto the breast. I found feeding via a cup meant he was more willing to try the breast to flex his sucking reflex. Also as others have said, lots and lots of skin to skin. And finally when he did learn to BF again but feeding was still hit and miss I found it was the positioning that was holding him back. His spine had to be completely straight, so I would have to use a firm pillow/cushion to hold him up high and flat.

Once we'd cracked it he would feed for hours and hours. Of course I moaned about that too, but was grateful that I could.

[loveverona]

Really feel for you JetLi - there are so many b/f issues which cause distress, even when things aren't too tricky. All the advice so far is great and you're doing all the right things. All I can add, IMO, is to give it time. I know it's so hard when you're feeling low (not to mention exhausted!), but babies can often take quite a few tries to change their habits. Your DD is still so little that I feel sure if you persevere she'll b/f within a few weeks. Some babies latch on straight away, others need a bit longer to be pursuaded!

In the meantime, be assured that your DD is getting your milk and all the nourishment she needs, so you're doing the best you can possibly do for her at the moment.

And make sure you look after YOU too. Eat and drink plenty to keep you're strength up.

Good luck!

[loveverona]

Oh one other thing, I haven't used them myself, but have also heard that Breastflow are great, so really worth giving those a go.

[treedelivery]

I'm hoping assuming ferncottage is taking the piss?

Bit ill timed really, hormones and exhaustion and all that.

If not, take care poster, in a few years your children will be starting 'AIBU about my DM/MIL who said BF isn't worth it' threads about you.

JetLi - have you had any more experinces good or bad with the BFing?

[TheNatty]

that was a very unhelpful post wasnt it.
to be honest, the babies health reasons aside, for JetLis MENTAL health she needs to keep going.

how are you doing today jetli?

[ExistentialistCat]

Hello again JetLi, how are you?

Sounds like we're in v similar situations. I hope that sharing my experience might make you feel less alone - I've certainly felt like I'm the only mum in the world who can't get the hang of bf!

I went back to the bf clinic today with nearly 3 week-old DD. She remains either uninterested or distraught at the breast .

I'm expressing round the clock, which is exhausting and socially isolating, but at least she's getting lots of breast milk. We're doing loads of no-pressure boob cuddles and skin-to-skin, and I'm offering the breast at every opportunity.

I've been in a REALLY bad way emotionally about all this. I don't think I've ever cried as much as I have over the last 2 weeks. So I've made a decision: I'm going to keep up the current regime until she is 4 weeks old, and If she hasn't got the hang of bf by then, go to a combination of ebm and formula, taking away the pressure to bf.

I know many people will think this is giving up too early but I've got to put my mental health first. It's been a really tough decision and I know I will grieve not being able to bf if nothing changes over the course of the next 10 days, but the relief that I feel at having made this decision indicates to me that it's right for us.

I totally believe that bf is best but I'm not sure that what borders on an evangelical attitude towards it amongst certain health professionals is particularly helpful when you're struggling. I have to keep reminding myself that formula, contrary to how I've been made to feel, is NOT actually poison!!

Hope this helps. Do keep us posted about your experiences - fingers crossed for you.

[JetLi]

Hello all - thank you for all the messages (could have done without Fern in the wee small hours this morning though, but never mind). Well the breastfeeding supporter came again today - she was really fab. She's upgraded my loaned pump to a double so that makes life easier for expressing. Then she weighed DD and she's only an ounce or two off her birth weight now so we're on the right track with her physically.
Then she had me and DD doing skin to skin and got me in a biological nursing position - DD bobbed about for a good ten minutes, making a bit of a noise and then (bugger me) latched on for dear life
She stayed on for a good twenty minutes and then we switched sides and she latched again. BF Supporter has advised to get naked (DD & me from the waist up) at every feed and offer the breast first in the BN position. If she gets fractious, then we should give her a small amount of EBM in a bottle to calm her down a bit, and then try again.
We tried this afternoon by ourselves and she got quite frustrated. After 30ml of EBM, we tried again and she latched again OK. She has been on and off the breast since 4pm this afternoon and finally packed in at about 8:30pm - I'm knackered but really chuffed. I've been slumped topless on the settee and baby has been "squashed frog", knees astride my thigh, at a 45 degree angle to my opposite breast from leg (if that makes sense).

BF supporter said to be patient and see how we go so we'll try again with the BN position overnight and top up with EBM. She's going to get a peer supporter to ring (and visit if I feel necessary) at the weekend, and she'll come back herself on Tuesday.
So we're very cautiously optimistic here.

Hi existentialistcat - I know exactly how knackered and upset you will be feeling - between the pumping, and the general upset of all concerned at the breast & then feeding the EBM, there is all the washing & sterilising of the feeding and pumping equipment to be taken care of as well and to keep up my supply I was managing to pump every 3 to 4 hours which only meant a couple of hours sleep in the night between sessions, taking into account all the other stuff to do. I didn't dare give up the nightime pumping sessions as it's meant to be so crucial to maintaining supply. I had been thinking long and hard about expressing longterm and I really couldn't see that being feasible for the next 6 months. I think your decision sounds like the right way to go and exactly as you say, formula does not equal battery acid. The BF supporter who came out to me today said the most important thing was that DD was being fed and putting on weight, and it really didn't matter how or what with and that made me feel immediately much better. And she's right - that really is the point of the whole thing.
I'm thinking of you x

[onepieceoflollipop]

JetLi, thanks for the update. What a lovely description of your beautiful dd in the squashed frog position. (I've read the thread but not posted before)

Hope things continue to get easier, sounds like you are doing really well.

[idontbelieveit]

That's brilliant news, well done you and your dd!

[ChocOrange05]

Great news jetli - hopefully she's getting the hang of it.

Also, be grateful for a summer baby and the ability to get naked! My nipples seemed to be permanently frozen while feeding my November born baby!

I just wanted to say Ithink you sound like a brilliant and dedicated mum and I hope BF continues to improve for you both.

[fishie]

jetli that is brilliant, hooray for you and dd. now just watch out for dodgy latch because you will likely be feeding oooh plenty. i am so pleased for you.

existentialistcat, maybe you could start another thread to get more support, have you got access to bf counsellor in rl?

[digitalgirl]

Well done jetli and dd, it sounds like you've found a good way to get back on track. I'm sure you'll be pros at it soon enough and posting advice for other mums in a similar position.

[logrrl]

oh! well done! fantastic work!

[thaliablogs]

Jetli I'm so pleased you've had such a breakthrough. I do hope it continues

Wanted to add a couple of props that might be helpful while you're still expressing:

1. Handsfree pumping bra from www.expressyourselfmums.co.uk

1. You don't need to sterilise pumping equipment every time, just once a day. In between put it in the fridge in a plastic bag - breastmilk keeps 5 days in fridge and that's all that's on the pump stuff so it's perfectly safe. You can even leave it at room temp between feeds if you're knackered

1. Get 3 complete sets of pumping stuff so you dont have to get up at night, just have all three sets by the side of the bed and use a fresh set each time, then clean all in the morning

4, Get a little cooler and keep pumped milk in there overnihgt so again you don't have to get out of bed.

But hopefully you won't need to pump much longer. With my dd she rejected the boob from day 5 til about week , then we got her back on via phasing out nipple shields and using breastflow bottles for top upss. Sadly I still had to pump as have crap supply, but if I can get her back on the breast with very little milk there,then I'm sure you can continue your good work. Well done!

[JetLi]

Many thanks all for the messages and many thanks for the sterilising advice thalia. That is all good to know.
Still doing quite well here thankfully. DD is still quite happy to latch on and have a feed and as I'm getting a bit more confident, the trick appears to be that under no circumstances must I touch her head - I can use my hand to give her somewhere to rest it once she's latched, but if there is any hint of trying to "direct" her head, then latch is not going to happen. So I hold her by the shoulder and let her bob around until she's on, and then afterwards support her chosen position.
fishie - you're right - now I need to do some work on her latch as she is sometimes trying to just nipple-feed rather than breast-feed which is leaving me somewhat sore. And she has the suck of a Dyson. It's really quite hard to pull her off when we've had such a breakthrough though, despite the toe-curling pain that she can induce. Oddly there are no outward signs of soreness - no cracking or bleeding, so I guess the pumping may well have toughened me up, and now I need to get baby-tough as well as pump-tough.
The freebie BreastFlow bottle arrived in the post this morning as well so that was good. I followed the Free Sample UK Only link on the BreastFlow website if anyone else would like one.
existentialistcat - how are you doing now?

[logrrl]

Don't "pull her off"! Put your pinkie in the corner of her mouth to slacken off the baracuda grip, then keep it there as your nipple comes out! Weirdly, they never told me to do this until I got told off by the hospital midwife who said I was going to have "nipple trauma". Thankfully, I never have, and 16 weeks in, I still need to use this pinkie trick, as he never wants to let go!

[JetLi]

Thanks logrrl - poor phrasing on my part there - I couldn't pull her off if I tried - she's got a suck like a bloomin' Dyson!!

[fledtoscotland]

i dont really have much experience but DS2 was a laid back feeder initially and i found that things dramatically improved after bathing together. we'd just relax in the warm water and he'd feed contentedly. he's anything but laid back now at 11months and is still a boob-monster

dont give up

[treedelivery]

We nicknamed ours Dyson for the first 2 weeks till we came up with a name!

Hope all still progressing ok for you.

[JetLi]

Just a very quick but heartfelt THANK YOU to everyone - DD is 18 days old now and exclusively breastfed - she can't get enough of me
The big blue breastpump went back today and I didn't mind a bit. Still finishing the antibiotics but (touch wood) I think we've avoided the dreaded thrush so far...
We just need to brave the outside world now - she'll feed in most positions now so I shouldn't need to go topless in Starbucks

[treedelivery]

God I feel like doing the conga

Bloody well done girl! This thread should be a classic to remind beaten down midwives/healthvisitors and consultants to keep motivated and fight the good fight.

Long may it continue, enjoy your feeding and precious weeks with your tiny one