Question for Tiktok, mostly - How does it all work?

[NotQuiteCockney]

I have a couple of questions about how breasts actually work.

1. Does supply work by circadian rhythms? Do my boobs know what time it is, and hence how much milk to make?
   
   
2. I understand the initial let-down is from the reservoirs. I can feel the reservoirs. That's all fine. But where do later let-downs come from? Are they hind-milk? Am I making it as it comes out? It comes out pretty fast, I think. I don't think it's other reservoirs, as my boobs feel entirely soft by this time ...
   
   
3. What happens when let-down happens? Why does it hurt? Are there muscles, or what?

[aloha]

Tiktok - Mosschops urgently needs help on other thread!

[tiktok]

emz, it varies....a week is nothing, though, and you may not feel everything is really back to what it was for a few months if you have been bf a long time (the longer you have been bf, the longer it takes for normality to return. However, some women feel they are never quite the same, b/c pregnancy and time have done their work

[emz31]

hi tiktok, i gave up BF a week ago,and have suffered v.painful boobs, but seem to be getting better now - a quick q. how long does it take for boobs to go back to their normal size? i had to buy a new underwired bra in a massive 32J, but i used to be a 34F - wondered if i should buy a couple of others in this new size to change or if i will soon go back to normal - please tell me i won't stay this jordan like size forever!!

[Casmie]

Linkifying for tiktok

[tiktok]

use this link

[tiktok]

Thanks, collision, and great things are going well

NQC, you mean ducts, then. Reservoirs (sometimes called sinuses) are little 'bulbs' , part of the ducts, and at the end of the ducts; sometimes women hand expressing feel for them to give them a guide for where to 'press' and they can feel like soft, pea-sized structures. There is some controversy as to whether they actually exist, but the ducts certainly do. Ducts are not the major place for the store of milk - if you put lactating breast into Google images you'll come up with some good examples of what's inside, like \link{www.emedicine.com/ ped/topic2594.htm\this one}.

Yes, milk making equipment shrivels up and goes when it's no longer in use, and it can take a little while for the fat to return - hence mothers who have stopped bf thinking that their breasts have disappeared! But there are several studies that there is more milk with the second baby than the first, so not sure exactly what goes on....prob the equipment doesn't totally go. There is a lot of other stuff going on in the breast to make the milk, anyway, not just having the basic equipment.

[collision]

This is so fascinating, Tiktok. I cannot believe how much false info there is about BFing and that so called experts give out such wrong advice.

When I had ds1, he was in SCBU for a week and I had Pre-eclampsia which meant I was in hosp for a long time too. The midwives were helping me with the BFing but kept telling me to top him up with formula. Because of all the different ones helping me I kept getting different advice and got completely confused with it all. I ended up expressing most of it and gave up completely after 14 weeks With ds2 who is 11 weeks we are well away and BFing is great. All the advice I got was from you and Mears and makes such a lot more sense than first time round. Thank you.

[NotQuiteCockney]

By reservoirs, I mean those sacs around the breast that fill up with milk, the ones that give mums scary torpedo boobs when their milk comes in. I can feel them, full or empty. (Empty-ish, I know there's always more milk.) Milk-storing tissue is probably a better way to put it.

Does the milk storage and production equipment go away after you stop breast-feeding? Is it normal for women to have better supply with each baby?

[tiktok]

Just thought - are you meaning 'ducts' when you say 'reservoirs', NQC?

[tiktok]

Not sure what you mean by reservoirs, NQC....the breasts tend to feel fuller all over in the early weeks/mths and then less full later, leading to mothers thinking their milk has gone, espcially if this change happens suddenly. Some women find it happens at about six weeks, but more typically, I would say it occurs at about 10-12 weeks.

In the early weeks, mothers may tend to over-produce, if anything, as if nature is making absolutely sure there is enough, not 'knowing' what this baby is like or how many there are of this baby ; )

Additionally, there is still some fat in the breasts which fills them out.

When bf gets very well-established, the supply is 'calibrated', that is, more neatly matches the needs of the baby (it can still be encouraged to increase if necessary, and if the baby starts to feed more often for some reason, more milk is made without anyone really noticing too much), and in addition, there is less fat because the breast tissue has actually developed more milk producing and storing tissue, replacing the fat.

[kinderbob]

I thought that because BM is a converted blood product that the alcohol is absorbed and processed by the liver in the same way that the alcohol in your blood stream is. Thus if you are okay to drive, you are okay to feed.

[NotQuiteCockney]

Thanks tiktok. I hadn't realised MER only hurt for a very very few women ... that almost makes me feel lucky or something. (It's not a really big problem, the pain is pretty brief. Feels like being jabbed with pins in the first months, but is now calming down anyway.)

Oh, I have one more - why do we get really full reservoirs in the first months, but not later? Where is the milk coming from? I'm sure older babies don't take less - or do they?

Ghosty, I had heard of babies being unable to get enough of larger boobs into their mouths ... I suspect this is something that can be fixed with positioning? I certainly know that breast size and shape changes which positions work for you.

[ghosty]

Ah ha .... thanks tamum

[tamum]

I guess what tiktk was alluding to was the fact that breast tissue is composed of a mixture of ductal/lobular tissue and fat, and the proportion of the two will vary between individuals. So someone who appeared to be very busty might have breasts made up of a high proportion of fat whereas someone fairly flat-chested might have breasts made up almost entirely of ductal tissue.

[ghosty]

I have always wondered about the ability to breastfeed vs breast size too.
I have average sized boobs, breastfeeding DD wasn't a problem.
I have a friend who has enormous boobs and couldn't breastfeed and a friend who is practically flat chested and she is still breastfeeding her very chunky 14 month old.
Isn't it also related to nipple shape rather than breast size?
Fascinating thread by the way ....

[chocolatecath]

Question for TikTok. Are you a BFC and if so, who did you train with and how long have you been doing it? I am thinking (just thinking) of training to become one. I hope it's alright to ask that question. I am fairly new here and maybe that's why I can't find your member profile which might answer my question! Also, are you a Health Professional? Thank you. (Oh, and if there are any other BFC's out there, I would be interested in hearing your responses too. Thanks again).

[hermykne]

my god i justread the 2 links tik tok, fascinating stuff, going to plonk it infront of dh to read..to see his reaction that'll be good

[IlanaK]

Just butting in here too.....about the breast storage capacity. I read this the other day in LLL Breastfeeding ANswer Book (which I have to say is the most fascinating book I have EVER read!). Anyway, perhaps I read it wrong, but I thought it said that breast milk storage capacity (but not the ability to make enough milk for your baby) WAS in fact related to breast size. Or did I read it wrong?

[spots]

Great, tiktok, thanks!

[Clayhead]

This thread is fascinating! Even though my bf days are (finally and a bit sadly) over.

Thanks for asking NQC

[Prufrock]

Thank you v. much.

[tiktok]

I understand the question is that alcohol gets into the breastmilk - so why doesn't it stay there, hanging about, waiting to 'get into' the baby at the next feed? Well, I have to say the exact biochemstry of this is miles over my head, but apparently what happens is that unlike (say) the urine in the bladder, 'alcohol is not trapped in breast milk, but is constantly removed as it diffuses back into the bloodstream'...this is from this scientific answer which goes on to explain more about the timing of the whole process.

Pumping and dumping does not hasten the process of elimination, and in fact it is a pointless thing to do - you just hafta wait until your body goes through the process at the same speed as it gets rid of alcohol in the bloodstream (via, I suppose, the liver)....so alcohol in the milk diffuses back into the bloodstream, hurtles round the body in the circulation, and is dealt with in the normal way as you de-toxify and become alcohol free.

Some components of some foods do get into the breastmilk, in varying amounts.

I am not sure exactly what is in breastmilk, and nor is anyone, as far as I can tell. They keep discovering new stuff!

I am not sure how it is made - this says something about it but it is all v. technical. The basic thing is having been pregnant and having breasts, but there are many cases where adoptive mothers have induced a milk supply, and one or two where men have got some milk, too, simply by having the baby suck on the breast.

[spots]

And I have an 'always wondered' too... but it's not important so if Tiktok gets too busy answering the others just ignore this...

what is breastmilk made of? what would it be being used for if it wasn't being made into breastmilk? does everyone have the 'ingredients' in their bodies or just lactating mothers? apart from the energy used to make it and the water content, does your body 'give up' anything to make it?

rattled that off, sounds a bit long winded! sorry!

[collision]

I am interested in all these questions and answers and I think tiktok is great!

[KateandtheGirls]

Really?