Editor's comment re: Jordan OK! article

[boogiewoogie]

I don't know whether this has been mentioned already but I read this yesterday from the Times.

Melanie McDonagh

Sounds as if she feels guilty about not being a "successful" breastfeeder. I am pro choice and do not have a problem with formula feeders but it's the smug and sanctimonious tone of the article that annoys me as well as the sloppiness in accuracy re breastfeeding. Is the point of her article the reason why women formula feed is because they're selfish? An insult to many who do ff. Also misses the point about the Jordan OK! debate that's going on.

[casbie]

ouch!

much sympathies bushel!

[Bushnels]

Someone here psoted a link to a research website where the great and the good have good look at breastfeeding. There was a research paper there about chronic pain in Bfeeding mothers and it described my situation to a tee. According to those experts it was likely to be an infection (not mastitis) that needed long term antibs.

Honestly I Bfed dd for 2.5 years and it would still hurt at times. I also can't stand dp touching them which does not go down well .

Bfeeding for some can be hard. With DD I had to stay in hosp and had loads of support. The Bfeeding counsellor there told me that she couldn't believe I was continuing as my nipples were so traumatised. They were scabed and bleeding.

I have big nipples too which DP loves but dd with small mouth - not so. My nipples would not fit into the expressing machines at the hosp.

[casbie]

bushnels - "If dd wanted to do it when she is older I would help as much as I could but if she was in as much agony as i was (mastitis etc) I would gently suggest she mix feed or stop all together."

bf should not get to the point of mastitis, but stop feeding at this point jepardises the health of the mother. the only way to help with mastitis is to keep feeding to remove blockage.

what women need is more one-to-one support and this is what will help women continue breastfeeding. that and support in hospital!

[Kewcumber]

Difers - its more common in the US - I've never heard of it in the UK and IIRC its not the same nutritional value so the only point is as a bonding exercise. Not for me though.

[Bushnels]

My sister think that extended breast feeders are getting a sexual kick from feeding.

You can see why I didn't tell her I was still bfeeding dd at 2.5 yrs. I have only just stopped.

I had a terrible time with both kids and breastfeeding and honestly even though I managed it ( I felt I had to as there is a history of asthma and eczema did little good ds had the worst eczema and now is asthmatic)I would never ever encourage someone to do it.

If dd wanted to do it when she is older I would help as much as I could but if she was in as much agony as i was (mastitis etc) I would gently suggest she mix feed or stop all together.

[Difers]

Kewcumber - He is a georgeous little boy, I wish you all the happiness in the world together.

BTW in a book called "The womanly art of breastfeeding" I read about women who adopt and then stimulate their boobs and breastfeed...I wonder what would the Social Workers would say about that ???

[Kewcumber]

I know that wasn't the point you were tryng to make but it did make me laugh

[Difers]

Oh I see Kewcumber!!

[Kewcumber]

Difers - my laughing was not at any reference to BF s FF but at the "easy" option of adopting. My DS was adopted, those who remember my story will confirm that it was anything apart from easy. (and I only published the edited highlights not all of the problems)

[newy]

I think women who want to bf should be given all the support they need. I tried to bf my DS but due to him needing to bf every hour I ended up in hospital with an excerbation of an existing medical condition (mainly through lack of sleep)As I went in by emergency ambulance, he had to have some ff. Therefore I decided to ff with some expressed milk as he then wouldn't take from my breast. (Although I couldn't express enough for all feeds). I managed to do this for 2 months and it meant I was not ill away from my baby. Many people who ff don't do it as a lifestyle choice but I think if they did it would be up to them. I often find I get disapproving looks at groups which is hard.
I agree with macneil and hope I don't meet elasticwoman on a dark night or I would be scared.

[Difers]

Don't get me wrong Kewcumber, I don't know your story but I'm not against women feeding formula if they can't for some reason, especially if their babies are starving (the midwives at chelsea & westminster were against me feeding my baby formula when he was literally fading away) but it's just the tone of this particular womans article, it's so easy to formula feed, I can get back to normal, husband can do a feed so I can sleep etc.. etc.. etc.. it is actually not natural to be like that and again we have a woman in the media promoting bottle feeding. Where is the balance???

[madamez]

I doubt there are really that many mums-to-be or mums of small babies who will base their decisions on bf v ff solely on what Jordan does. Factors like economic situation in the household, pain, failure of baby to thrive, etc, will all play a rather bigger part. While I agree that breast is better than formula, I'm glad I didn't persevere with bf to the extent that I refused ff for my DS to the extent that he suffered and starved (for various reasons, I just didn't have any milk for him). And the one myth I'd like to bust is the one that, if you give a baby any formula then you will fail to BF when believing that myth leads to babies suffering unnecessarily.

[3andnomore]

what makes me "chuckle" is that Jordan is meant to be one of "Jason Vales folowers" what with her Juicing..and, I know for a fact thT JV is very much agaisnt cowmilk in general...and believes that bf is the way to go, really....hm.......

[macneil]

Gosh, I had to click because of the comments below; your son is utterly beautiful, Kewcumber.

[Kewcumber]

he's so cute isn't he. Actually he's more cute in the flesh (except for this afternoon when he was grumpy hell-child)

[meandmyflyingmachine]

Just looked at your profile.

Yum.

[Kewcumber]

oh that was only the tip of the iceberg. Still having 6 weekly social worker visits. I won't go into the three years prior to the published version... would hijack the thread.

[meandmyflyingmachine]

I was thinking of your epic KC!

[Kewcumber]

"why not just adopt and save the hassle of going through childbirth so she can just get on with her life quicker???? "

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ROFLMAO ha ha ha ha - Kewcumber wipes away tears from laughing until she wet herself, considered discussing but wanders off the BF threads where she really has no place being...

[meandmyflyingmachine]

Unless you are a 40-something popstar that is

[meandmyflyingmachine]

I think adopting is actually rather more 'hassle' then childbirth...

[Difers]

Well I agree with you Macneil in the sense that it is unhelpful to make people bad for formula feeding when many people have very deep psychological issues or mental health issues which make breastfeeding difficult for them in the culture that we live in.

Having said that, when you read what this woman says about why she formula fed I can't help feeling annoyed with her, why did she bother having kids??...why not just adopt and save the hassle of going through childbirth so she can just get on with her life quicker????

This is what women are expected to do now isn't it..breastfeeding I think is there to slow us down, to take time with our babies...to change the pace of our lives to match theirs and if you formula feed that doesn't happen does it?

Is this why there are so many people needing antidepressants, cutting themselves, with eating disorders..because they have been made to fit in with this rushed life that we now lead????

[macneil]

I really don't have a problem with people extolling the protective effect of breast feeding (although it may be somewhat overstated in these parts - unless breastfeeding is extended, there isn't much of an effect indicated). What I can't understand is why Elasticwoman posts the way she does, a knot of what read as accusations and threats: you have not done the best for your children, in her opinion, no matter what your situation (short of death) and you have INCREASED your chance of dying. Who does she think she's helping? Does she think she's helping?

[ElenyaTuesday]

I do wonder if some of the emphasis on reducing the breast cancer risk by bf could be counter-productive. I remember reading an article by Dina Rabinovitch just after she was diagnosed with breast cancer. She said that she had noticed the lump but had done nothing for some time because she had done "all the right things", i.e. she had had her children at a younger age and had breastfed for a long time - in fact, she was still breastfeeding her youngest (who was about 3) when she was diagnosed. So she assumed that the lump was unlikely to be cancerous.

Bizarrely all the women I've known who have developed breast cancer had all breastfed - slightly freaky!!

[Lizzer]

Sorry to skip back a bit to the OP..But did anyone read the comments posted after Melanie Mcdonagh's Article? This one was my absolute fave......

"Good for you, your baby dropped out with the minimum inconvenience to your important life and breast shape. It's this type of advanced thinking, with the use of drunken celebrities as role models, that makes this country what it is." - Toby Martin

Class!