Refuse 5am feed to 8 week old? Aibu?

[Nobhobs]

Just that really, he has reflux so is quite a sicky baby but is on ranitidine and gaviscon to help. He spits up after most feeds but after his 5am feed he projectile vomits for about an hour. He's not in any pain. We've had him checked for pyloric stenosis and all is well. He's gaining weight perfectly along the 50th centile. I've got a feeling he doesn't need this feed and is still full from his 2/3am feed? Would I be evil to start refusing this feed and making him wait until 7am? I'm still feeding on demand but he fell into a rough routine of 3 hourly in the day then 12, 2/3, 5am

[lampplease]

@Nobhobs haven't read all posts/suggestions but wanted to share our experience- my 5 month old has not fed overnight since about 8 weeks, probably from about 4-6 weeks I slowly stretched him with dummy and waited for proper hunger signs/crying to feed and at 8 weeks he was feeding once overnight. By 12 weeks no feeds over night we are at 5 months and his last feed is at 6pm and next feed 7am. If he cried/was distressed would obviously feed and when had jabs or funny day/routine have - but mostly and honestly feed is 6pm until the morning but the reason I am sharing is because like your experience my DS has severe horrid reflux & early on my gut knew if I was feeding overnight the screaming/arching/sickness would be all night rather than how it was before we were on top of it when screaming was jall day!

We are on ranitidine and had the test for Plyroic stenosis which was clear and a 24hr reflux study which shows how severe his reflux is with acid & along with a barium x Ray which showed milk coming straight up - which motivated me not to feed at night from quite a young age- his reflux causes him to choke when the acid or feed comes up so again another confirmation to only feed when he can be observed afterwards.

We know feed 7am, 10, 1, 4 followed by solids then 6. We combination feed so three BF and two formula we are on a dairy free formula as the link to reflux and allergies is high and we are using a thickener carobel under the Doctor/salt and dietician as the thickener helps the reflux. Also weaning early to help it too.
I am also on low dairy diet to help.

So a long answer but no not a problem at all to not feed overnight - my rules at first it was to not feed after 10 and before 5 - then stretched to not before 6am -

Good luck - pm if any more questions on the reflux

[Nobhobs]

No sick at all! Yay!

[Nobhobs]

Thanks for all the advice. I winded him for longer after his 3am feed and he didn't start grumbling until 5.30am, gave him a dummy which he fell back asleep with until 6.30. Finished feeding 15 mins ago and no sick yet. Normally he's spouted it everywhere by now so fingers crossed.

[BrownRogerForever]

It would not be evil to stop this feed. You sound amazing and are doing a great job Broken sleep, reflux baby is a form of torture! I would stop the feed for a couple of days and then record the outcome (I'm a geek). So then you can see if your baby is sick less, more or less settled. Just an idea.

Just to echo what others have said, my ebf baby would not have settled when hungry with just a dummy, so maybe your baby isn't hungry, or maybe looking for milk as comfort/reduce discomfort of reflux. I also wouldn't view it as stopping a feed, it's checking if feed is needed, delaying feeding for an hour or two, your baby will be fine if feeding well.

Good luck with what you decide.

[pinkcardi]

I started spacing out feeds at 6 weeks old.

Still feeding if she was hungry, but encouraging decent gaps between them. This enabled us to have a routine, and we were very lucky that slept through from around 7 weeks.

If you think he isn't hungry, and it's causing more hassle, I would absolutely see if you can drop the 5am feed. You know what's best for him, trust your instincts. I hope the situation improves, sounds horrible for you all.

[DHW1]

My Daughter (10 weeks) suffers from really bad reflux and has fell from the 75th percentile to the 50th for weight in the last month. We’ve started using different bottles, milks everything we can think of to aid the baby to be comfortable (on top of the usual hold for 30 mins etc.). She has now settled on lots of smaller feeds throughout the day (and night) whereas previously she would have 5/6 feeds sleep through the night (10.30-5.30). We tried dummies and she doesn’t like them. It’s not ideal doing lots of small feeds and was a big change to what we were used to but if it works for her and helps her weight that’s the most important thing. She too has projectile vomited regularly and it is horrible to see but if they want fed I would give even a smaller feed because if you don’t it’ll be tossing and turning for the baby and a different discomfort for them until they’re fed.

It’s not easy having a reflux baby, it’s a constant worry with every feed and heartbreaking to see them in discomfort- I’m hoping though all the small changes will make a big difference!

[northernlites]

BF babies tend to have approx 8 feeds in 24hrs, it doesn't matter when those are, so you could hold off with that feed. Although if lots of vom, they may want to feed more to make up for what's lost
However it sounds like the meds need adjusting if there is still projectile vomit and unsettled- maybe pain and not hunger?
I would be asking for an adjustment of ranitidine from GP/paed ASAP

[EllesBells123]

As others have said GPs can be quick to say "no it isn't cows milk protein intolerance as baby isn't sick all the time and is still gaining weight" - we heard that ALOT. I don't know if that's because it's just not well understood so reflux is always diagnosis number 1 or if it's because the formula is expensive so they tend not to suggest it.

My DS used to projectile vomit in the evenings but not during the rest of the day and was gaining weight well. That was resolved in under a week by switching to CMPA formula.

It may not be a contributing factor to the vomiting at all but it wouldn't hurt to cut out dairy for a few weeks to see if this makes any improvement (just eat plenty of dairy alternatives to ensure you get enough calcium).

[spinn]

Op having a refluxer is totally different to a normal baby and the only rule we followed is that normal rules no longer apply and forum posts invariably get you lynched by those whose kids never had any issues and who do not understand a refluxer.


So yes limit that 5am feed and see if you can hold off for an hour or get up at 5am for the day - he is feeding over the night laying down more so may well need some up tome before being ready to digest the food. Alternatively give less milk in the earlier feed.

Suggest you find the living with reflux group on fb - they are brill and saved our sanity.

Do keep an eye on cmpa as reflux is a sign of it as well.

Also consider if the ranitidine needs a higher dose (it's weight related) or is baby needs ompeprazole instead.

We used reflux milk but made baby #2 constipated and he had cmpa plus reflux in the end.

[hazandduck]

Sympathies, OP, my daughter had significant reflux and I spent a lot of time covered in puke!

I breastfed her for 14 months. Don’t give up if it is working for you, he is gaining weight. My daughter was gaining and to be honest you can’t measure how much they are taking in really when you’re breastfeeding like you would with a bottle, so if your son isn’t losing weight I would personally just try and ride it out and continue to demand feed, unless he is very distressed when being sick.

Like you say he has plenty of wet nappies, if he seems generally happy, I wouldn’t stop breastfeeding. You never know the change to formula could upset his tummy more!

If he will settle for a dummy try that. One thing I found breastfeeding for as long as I did, they use your boob as a dummy half the time! Especially when so little they don’t always know when they’ve had too much. But if he takes in too much he will just bring it back up, like he is.

[TheSheepofWallSt]

I read somewhere that the first feed of the day can be the worst with reflux babies- but can’t remember if it was anecdotal or a medical thing...

Also what’s your let down like? I had really fast let down and when it was VERY fast and DS was little, he would get very windy and vomit. For me, the 6am was the most “forceful” in terms of flow (I know you’re feeding overnight but I think it’s a hormonal thing?) - if your flow is fast, it’s potentially going to make him windier, ergo more sicky.

Could you try and express one feed for the 5am feed, and give it from a bottle with a slow flowing teat? See if that helps?

[SoyDora]

If he settles for the dummy then I’d do that. If mine were actually hungry they wouldn’t settle for anything except milk.

[Poochandmutt]

One other thing
I hate to say this
Could the 5 am waking up ,be him ready to get up for the day?
Could you try a later bedtime?
Could at 5 am he be saying by crying “mummy I’m ready for my day to start ? “
My kids would of definitely had me up and on the go from 5 am given a chance ,so I would juggle their bedtime ,untill they slept in a bit later till 6 x

[darlingsweetpea]

I have it on the 3.00pm feed when my daughter is growing. Her brain is saying I want more food, but her stomach can't hold it. I just sit on the floor and let her vomit if she wishes as I'm sure she keeps some of the feed down. This has happened at all the grow miles stone and she seems happy.

[whatswithtodaytoday]

If his weight is steady (that's brilliant!) I'd say trying to give him a dummy for an hour or so if fine if he's not screaming.

I know it's a total pain and really, really hard when you're exhausted, but are you burping him enough? I think poochandmutt might be right and he's had wind still in him from earlier in the night.

[Whatevskev]

And don’t stop breastfeeding just to try a formula!

Breaths milk is great and the fact you have made it to 8 weeks with such great weight gain is fabulous- you have done the hard bit it gets easier and easier from this point!

He doesn’t sound like CMPA if he is thriving and growing well and no other symptoms.
If you really want to try then you can go fairly and soya free yourself for a trial

There is nothing magic in the comfort formulas and at the risk of being shot down- breaths milk is still easier on your DS stomach than any comfort formula. He is also having gaviscon and ranitidine so already getting comfort meds.

[Poochandmutt]

Don’t give up breast feeding honey ...honestly I never produced any milk with my kids ,boobs just didn’t,

much to my shame .the other thing I remember with mine (20 years a go )
Was to feed them quick the second they woke,once they started crying ,they took in huge gulps of air ,which the milk sat on ,and then came back out in sick.,so I was always ready with the bottle as soon as they stirred ...even a tiny cry mine took in air ,and then it was ages winding them ..just what I remember,good luck your doing just great x

[Whatevskev]

@MmmBlowholes what a horrible and ridiculous thing to say
She is EBF on a three hourly basis day and night and coping with a reflux baby whilst sounding loving and concerned and you suggest she sounds inconvenienced?!
Nasty people on here

She is mentioning the sheets to describe the volume of vomit.

OP yes try it. You may be correct in that he hasn’t digested the 1AM feed and thus the 5am feed overfills him.

Many babies are sleeping though or going longer stretches by this age and if your baby is growing well and otherwise thriving then it’s obviously safe to see if he will settle without a feed then.

My refluxy baby rarely seemed to be hungry after a massive vomit although would often feed on and off after smaller posits.

But go on his overall behaviour between feeds eg is he settled and content and also his weight trajectory.

You sound lovely and caring and it’s bloody hard having a refluxy baby

Some posters are idiots and too eager to stick the boot in

[Nobhobs]

Thanks @Poochandmutt I burp him and get one big burp like at most feeds but will try and burp him for longer tonight. I hadn't thought of that

[whatswithtodaytoday]

Sorry I missed that he's ebf. I would trying cutting out dairy yourself for two weeks and just see how it goes. It can't hurt to try. I find every time I asked if it could be CMPA I got a very quick 'nope, couldn't possibly be', but based on my own research my child does have a few of the markers for it. It's very mild so I haven't bothered with non-dairy milk, but I'm interested too see what happens when he's fully weaned and having far less.

[Poochandmutt]

I’m wondering if he had wind after the 3 am feed ,perhaps he didn’t get the wind up before he went back to sleep ,so wakes up crying ,the 3 am feed hasn’t digested due to wind ,you feed him more milk and both feeds fly out of him at the 5 am feed .
Try having him upright for longer after the 3 am feed ,I know it means you can’t get back to bed/sleep as quickly ,but it might bring his wind up and give you and him an extra hours sleep till 6 am .
I never managed sleep past 6 am with my 4 kiddies anyway x

[Nobhobs]

@whatswithtodaytoday He's not projectile vomiting constantly for the whole two hours but repeatedly until what looks like that whole feed is up, it's normally 5 or 6 big sicks over the course of an hour, sometimes 2. It could possibly be some of his last feed too. I'm not really sure. His weight is bang on 50th centile and has been since birth. Our paediatrician said it doesn't sound like cmpa and I'm ebf so haven't tried formulas. Might just pack in breastfeeding and give some reflux formula a go. The gaviscon helps at the other feeds but definitely doesn't stop the sick, just reduces the amount.

[Nobhobs]

Tilted*

[Nobhobs]

@DoctorAllcome His crib is titled. I just mean I sit and hold him completely upright for 30/40 mins on our paeds recommendation. Will ask them about a wedge though, thank you!

[whatswithtodaytoday]

You could try it... but I suspect the next feed will be the same, especially if he's upset and crying. But at eight weeks I'm pretty sure my baby was going five hours or so between nighttime feeds (he slept through from 12 weeks).

I've never heard of a baby with reflux projectile vomiting for that long, surely he's bringing everything up, not just his last feed? Is he gaining weight?

I feel for you, we struggled with reflux and some days I just draped myself and everything around me in towels. He only ever did one massive sick at a time though, plus smaller blurps. For us Gaviscon really helped, but have you tried reflux milk? Or a CMPA-friendly formula? It does sound like this needs more investigation.