Breast or Bottle

[user4321]

Imagine a world where formula and breast milk were equally nutritious for newborn and the benefits of BF were unknown.

I’m wondering if this were the case, what the general opinion is on what is the easiest way to feed baby and which method is more likely to cause problems at the beginning, and statistically, which method would be better for a happy mother and baby?

[1stTimeRounder]

Formula
Using ready mixed means no faffing with kettles at.3am, just pour and feed, yes it's not as easy as whipping a boob out, but you can share the load with partner or other family allowing you to recover and recuperate. I don't believe it has any affect on my bond with my baby, and he has a very close bond with his Dad who fed him from very early on also.

I have to say it's nice to see that people on this thread are generally being quite polite and respectful of each other's opinions and experiences.

Also as much as everyone says breast feeding is "FREE" or cheap... this is only the case if we don't put a value on a women's time. Also I spent way more on breast feeding equipment (nipple shields, pumps, feeding friendly clothes, bras, pads, creams, supplements and on and on) on top of the £££ lactation and tongue tie consultants than I ever spent on bottles and even formula...

[Anatidae]

Yeah it is interesting.

I suspect that ff or bf alone doesn’t make much difference. I know there’s solid research saying that depression rates are highest in women who felt compelled to bf but couldn’t. I think it’s the feeling like you should be doing it one way and being unable to do that that makes women suffer. I suppose that can go both ways -you might get women wanting to bf but unable to, finding it hard, baby is in hospital, Mum is ill, pain, mastitis, or just plain old lack of support. Or women who want to bf but are strongly discouraged by community. Or women who really want to stop bf and do ff but feel pressured by the relentless tide of judgement. It’s the not doing it how you feel is best that’s the cause of stress.

You only have to look at some of the bf/ff threads on here to see how fraught it gets. Huge amounts of judgement.

Fwiw, I did (eventually) bf ds until he was about 15m. But if I ever have another I will definitely give a bottle a day as well. Ds fed constantly and never slept, so being the only one who could feed or settle him was far too hard. He was NOT a placid baby... :)

When I finally managed to wean him, I was simultaneously judged on the same day by one of my group 2 mums who was horrified I’d stopped so early and by a Mum from back home who made it quite clear she thought breastfeeding past a few weeks was utterly disgusting. You just can’t win.

I suspect the happiest mums have two common factors with feeding. 1. They're using a method they’re happy with, and feel no pressure with and 2. They have sufficient support from those around them.

[FartnissEverbeans]

What you’re seeing in that study is actually a readout of maternal wellbeing

You're probably right there. I wonder if there are any studies of maternal wellbeing in relation to ff or bf? That's what his thread is about really, I suppose.

[Rinceoir]

I was convinced breastfeeding was going to be very very hard having heard lots of awful experiences. After a terrible labour culminating in a GA section I was even more apprehensive.

For me it was easy. My DD was born knowing what to do, I never had pain, never opened the lansinoh I bought. She fed every 2 hours from 9am-midnight and once overnight from birth, slept 11-8/9 by 8 weeks. She never cried and I was able to get out and about as soon as I recovered- was brilliant to just put a nappy and change of baby outfits in a bag and head out to museums/cinema etc. On the downside she wouldn’t take a bottle and come 6 months she wouldn’t eat either. She had breastfeeding down and saw no need to get nutrition any other way!

It can be very easy, but I do think it depends on the baby you get. I recognise I had an incredibly easy newborn and easy breastfeeding experience- I wouldn’t expect it to be like that again necessarily.

[Anatidae]

I think the problem is that until you can truly say that bf or ff isn’t linked to any sociodemographic factors, then almost every study is confounded - does that make sense?

And there’s obviously two huge sensitive issues there - feeding and ‘class’ and people get (understandably) miffed at being stereotyped.

I dont see how you even do quality research on it - it can never be blinded, it’s beset with confounding errors, layers and layers of them.

[Anatidae]

Basically what you're saying is that working class babies are happier...?

No, I’m saying that MUMS who have support structures in place are less stressed because they have more help.

The study was using Mum- reported affect as an endpoint, not an objectively rated measure.
To me, that study says a lot about maternal mental health and stress levels and not as much about the babies themselves. There was no objective assessment of the baby by an independent third party. What you’re seeing in that study is actually a readout of maternal wellbeing imho.

This is why studies are so confounding because you start and you think you’re looking at one thing, but actually you’re looking at something else. What’s being measured here is more likely the maternal opinion and wellbeing. And if you dig deeper into that I bet you will see the same thing - larger community based parenting, which is more often (not always, as coco mentions, but more often) mums who live closer to family and origin networks. And in turn that’s a more working class /less educated demographic. Who ff more. And have networks to help out. And bigger families.

I consider myself thoroughly wc by the way - what I see in my own social environment is a very different setup between all the people I know from Home and all the people I know where I currently live/have lived for work.

[Rikalaily]

I would rather have my eyes gouged out than have to get up in the night with a screaming baby, making a bottle, waiting for it to cool etc. I've never found breastfeeding easy, especially the first few months as all my babies are born tongue tied and it's absolute agony for me. My first was combi fed from 2 weeks to 8 weeks then ffed and never ever again. The amount of bloody faff, washing, sterilizing, making them, having a hysterical baby waiting for it to cool, needing to carry loads of stuff when out and about, not to mention the cost. Have bfed the last four, the struggle in the early weeks is far outweighed by how easy and convenient it is later on.

[FartnissEverbeans]

Of course you can bottle feed one handed - I spent the first four months of my baby's life on Mumsnet! You can even bottle feed hands free - while someone else does it, and you have a bath/sleep/meal.

[FartnissEverbeans]

Interestingly enough I'm a middle class expat mum living in the Middle East. I have no family in this country - it was just me and DH (and he had three days off then back to work). I exclusively formula fed from birth.

Amongst my expat friends who have children now, there's a real mix of those who formula fed from birth, those who switched to exclusive formula feeding (most of my friends) at a few weeks old, and one person I know of who bf exclusively to seven months. So I find your choice of confounding variable a bit weird? Do you really think that bf mums are in tougher situations socially, to the point where that might skew the study and affect the temperament of middle class babies?

Basically what you're saying is that working class babies are happier...?

It seems a bit convoluted. I'm not flaming. I just don't think this particular argument holds much water, though I acknowledge there are other variables potentially at work here.

[noeffingidea]

Bottle feeding for me. Breast fed for 3 weeks so have a little bit of experience.
Blue yes you can bottle feed one handed and scroll through mumsnet at the same time. When they get to a certain age (5 or 6 months) some babies actually enjoy holding their own bottles so you can have both hands free if you want.
There's actually quite a few tricks and tips to bottle feeding (without compromising safety of course) that you learn as you get more experienced, same as with breastfeeding.

[LuchiMangsho]

My entire middle class SW London group breastfed. It's much more the 'norm' here. Everyone can afford plenty of help. And a lot of the expat mums (like myself) had family come over to help in the first few weeks. Also everyone in my and DH's family have breastfed their babies. So things like cluster feeding etc, I had plenty of people to reassure me it was fine and normal. And make cups of tea as I fed and watched box sets.

[PeachyCandle]

Breast. I fed DS til he was 2.5 and stopped as the pain was terrible, as I was pg with DD. I’m feeding her now, she’s 7 months.

I found it easy both times, right from the beginning. No negativity/comments/criticism from anyone ever, and I frequently fed DS as a large toddler in public.

I appreciate this is a very rare experience though.

[CocoDeMoll]

I knew it was going to be a bit tricky to begin with but I just kept on. It didn't break me. Lack of sleep almost did though!!

[Anatidae]

Painful and non stop isnt easy though.

Easy is painless and efficient.

I think the message that BF can be hard especially at first need to be out there more.

[CocoDeMoll]

ana no flaming but I'm not your typical bf mum. I had loads of family support (youngest of a big family), was in my 20s, not degree educated etc. My decision to bf wasn't even a decision. I just did it because that's how I seen baby's being fed when I was growing up.

[CocoDeMoll]

And yes it was easy from the beginning (feels taboo to say that). Don't get me wrong it was painful and non stop for a few days but still easy.

[Anatidae]

Ok then. But I bet I will get shot down for stereotyping.

ALL the bfing mums I know are middle class / expat professionals living away from family support. They are stressed, shattered, and have no family help. Massive incidence of anxiety, overthinking etc. Babies are poor sleepers (well not poor, normal.)?

ALL the ff mums I know live in their original communities with big extended families. They have loads of family support. ( Bf is largely frowned on as being a bit icky - I was on the receiving end of this quite a bit with ds, sigh.)

Group 1 has higher incidence of anxiety, their babies seem more alert, grouchy and touchy. Group 2 seem to have a preponderance of chilled, decorative babies. Group 1 is far more stressed out than group 2.

Bf studies are basically impossible to run (I’m a medical researcher before anyone starts going on about the chuffing Brazilian study..) you cannot adequately control for socioeconomic factors. It doesn’t surprise me one bit that ff babies are more placid because far more of them will be being raised in a community setting with a Mum who can actually get some time to herself rather than having her nearest family member a continent away.

I Await my flaming.

[CocoDeMoll]

Breastfeeding for sure.
I loved how cheap and convenient it was. It's also the ultimate weight loss trick as dd just seemed to hoover any fat off me whilst I sat on my arse and ate cakes .

I found the closeness and bonding very special too. That's not to say you can't achieve a similar bond with a bottlefed baby before anyone jumps on me!!

[BertrandRussell]

"Oh for goodness sake bf is easy and convenient for some and not for others."
And saying that it is way and convenient is one of the biggest Mumsnet taboos. One of the reasons, I suspect, why so many women are put off even trying!

[eeanne]

Oh for goodness sake bf is easy and convenient for some and not for others.

I literally don’t know a single BF mum who found it easy for the first 4 weeks. Not one. It becomes easy once mum and baby learn how to work as a unit. Takes a least a month from what I’ve seen from friends and family.

Stats I’ve seen suggest many British women quit during this period so they only have the experience of the difficult first weeks.

[FartnissEverbeans]

The list of confounding factors is good - if add a few as well but I’d get flamed for adding them

Why would you get flamed? Please post away. How are we supposed to have a decent discussion if you're self censoring?

Most bf studies are plagued by confounding variables which are almost impossible to account for.

[sinceyouask]

Breast. The difference between reaching for the baby and hoicking my top up and getting out of bed and faffing around with bottles and formula at 3am would sell breastfeeding to me every time. Also it's free.
I didn't find it easy establishing feeding with ds1 but after the first six weeks or so, my goodness it was worth it.

[FartnissEverbeans]

eeanne Well obviously its tiny. I think that's outlined in the link I posted.

I just thought it was interesting.

[EthelOnTheTown]

Oh for goodness sake bf is easy and convenient for some and not for others.

Surprise surprise the ones that found it easy will say bf, the ones that found it difficult due to lack of support, physical problems, depression etc will say sterilising a few bottles was worth it for their sanity.

[Anatidae]

I think the notion of a Smiley placid infant being a good thing is erroneous. Infants survive by being demanding. A decorative baby isn’t necessarily good.

The list of confounding factors is good - if add a few as well but I’d get flamed for adding them