Bad jaundice, tongue tie, difficult latch and awkward boobs!

[Shantotto]

I have an 8 day old and desperately want to breastfeed. We seemed to start well, everyone in hospital saying how great the latch was. It got very very sore and I knew he wasn't getting much, he wasn't swallowing anything. A lactation consultant helped and diagnosed tongue tie. Got this snipped and first feed after was amazing - I could tell he was swallowing. This then went afterwards and we were back to the start with struggling to latch. His jaundice is still really bad and I have to top up with formula to make sure he is getting enough to try and shift it.

I know his tie is still healing but I find it so hard to latch him on well. My boobs are really far apart and the nipples point off to the side so the 'easy' cradle nose to nose thing doesn't work for me. On the right I can do rugby hold, baby is very long so is wrapped all the way around me and I still find latching hard as his mouth doesn't open very wide.
This postion on the left feels impossible to get it all lined up and his mouth to open wide enough. I really hate this position. I've tried laidback feeding and the poor thing just can't get attached and it upsets me to see him rooting so hard.

Also when he is on he barely swallows. I don't think I am letting milk down.

However with a lot of support at s bf drop in he latched well and obviously drank for 30 mins. I think at home I am to anxious to do it properly. Which doesn't help let down! All advice I've seen is to pump and try expressed milk while we learn but I can't pump more than a few drops. Again to anxious to let down?

I just don't know where to turn now. I think I can do this but seemingly not without help! I'm so upset about giving him formula but I am deseparate for him to feed well. If his jaundice doesn't improve by next week I'll be back in hopsital with him. He is doing wet nappies but has only done two poos since all his meconium came out in hospital.

One positive is midwives are ok with his weight loss so far. Any advice would be so appreciated!

[Shantotto]

The midwives seemed pleased, he out 70g on during the Monday - Wednesday. However I just can't shake the feeling it's not working or he isn't eating enough and I'm a bit useless for not being able to do it properly. I can't bear the thought o f him not getting enough to eat. He looks so skinny!

I think I'm over thinking it and being too hard on myself but I read so much about he won't get the rich milk if he's not latched right and it just really stresses me out! It's like I can't believe I (we!) are doing ok. I also am not convinced his tongue tie snip has entirely worked. Must find time to register him with the GP and ask them to take a look. He cant seem to use his tongue properly still.

[Shantotto]

He has been feeding constantly for 3 days. He's very lazy on the breast and I dont hear any swallows. He only does a dirty nappy every few says but about the right amount in f wet ones. I am sure there is something wrong with my supply for him to be doing this. Also convinced latch still bad but can't improve IT so feel completely useless and I can't stop crying.

[Ilovecrapcrafts]

OP can I just say you've been amazing. Maximum respect

[notascooby007]

For the love of god just give him a bottle!!! Bf is only best when it's good for both of you and clearly it isn't good for you if you feel this way. You are not a bad mum or a failure to ff do what's best for you and your baby not what you think you should be doing be kind to yourself x

[captainproton]

Shantotto it is perfectly normal for BF babies to go up to a week without a dirty nappy. It is not formula and there is less waste to dispose of. But of course some are more regular than others. Your baby is feeding well if gaining weight. I suspect the more you persevere the more relaxed you will become and the more second nature it becomes. Your baby is still only wee and he is learning as are you. Please think about going to a local BF support groups if there are any near you. I run one, lots of women go regularly for mutual support and friendship and it becomes a little easier knowing you are not alone.

[Shantotto]

Thanks ilove!

Captain, I've been trying to go to groups 3 times a week - they keep telling me I'm doing ok but poor DS always seems starving and screams when not on boob all day long - not just a few hours of cluster feeding.

The groups help a lot but I struggle to repeat it at home alone and it makes me feel like a failure. If I can really crack that it will help massively.

Yesterday there were a couple of times he fed a whike then did sleep for a short time so I got a little break. But then I spend 25 mins in each boob pumping while nothing comes out. -_-

[Shantotto]

So my latest round of advice is feed on each boob if I can for 30 mins. If baby still wants food then small formula top up. Apparently I've been feeding so much and an so exhausted I'm not producing good fatty milk. So once baby has had a top up, goes to sleep for a bit I also rest rather than him being constantly attached and not getting much out.

I don't know how wise that sounds really. He's going to get so much formula that I don't know if my boobs will keep up. I know the midwives are concerned about me and how much rest in getting. Even gave me a wee reminder about seeing my GP if I sart feeling like it's all too much. I can't bear hearing him cry after he's been on the boob for an hour. :(

[captainproton]

Who gave you that advice? I have never heard that feeding for extended periods produces poor quality milk. Actually the reverse The longer you leave between feeds sometimes the more watery it is. But let's not forget that all milk whether 'fore' or 'hind' milk contains nutrients.

There are many reasons why a baby stays at the breast sometimes for comfort, if it is hot for thirst, if they have reflux (even silent reflux). Or they are snackers and feed little and often.

An awful lot of healthcare professionals have no experience or training regarding BF, and that is why a trained counsellor is best to ask.

Does your baby scream when you lie him down? Do you wind him? What are you thoughts on why he feeds a lot?

[captainproton]

Also a lot of BF mums co-sleep with their baby, you have to practice feeding laying down. In this warm weather you probably won't need to have duvets and blankets on the bed so it should not be 'unsafe' and you can co-sleep safely whatever time of year if you look into it. I don't hAve any links to hand and on my iPhone so can't really looking for you now.

Co-sleeping and BF often go hand in hand but many mums don't like to tell people they do this because it's not seen as the Thing to do. Despite it being the norm for millennia and is still practised outside the western world.

[Shantotto]

It was advice from the midwife and who was running the bf support group. It was the healthcare support worker as the usual midwife who does it wasn't in. I think they are concerned about me as I was exhausted and very stressed out. They were saying I should rest as much as possible to help my mik production as tiredness and stress would affect it. I did think it was slightly odd advice. I think it might be a mix of feeding and comfort for baby, but I was struggling with him being attached all the time. He always seem to suck very slowly and lazily.

I'm getting so much conflicting advice I don't know what to do now. I'm happy to co sleep but I can't get the hang of lying down and feeding.

My DP wants me to rest more and try this until they told us to go back on Friday. I just want to give up now.
He's gaining slowly so I must be doing something but we're giving him more formula now. He's so hungry though even after feeding for an hour. He would stay on all day I think.
I'm sure I read that all this fore / hind milk stuff wasn't really a thing anyway. I don't know what to do anymore!

Thanks so much for your posts!

[Shantotto]

Oh and yes we are winding him. This morning for example, be fed from me for an hour. We laid him down as he seemed quite sleepy and that lasted maybe 15 minutes then he started to cry again. He was winded, soothed as best we could, started banging around and trying to root on my DP so we decided to give him a top up. I can see a bf counsellor at a drop in on Friday. The others are just ran by HVs or midwives. I just really don't think I have enough milk or he'd not he really hungry straight away again?

[Shantotto]

Sorry for all the posts, I think maybe they were meaning to help me produce more rather than it not being of good enough quality if that makes sense? As let down is affected my stress and things I think they reckon that if I am better rested he'll get more milk so will not be crying and hungry after and hour or so of boob?

[captainproton]

You can ask your GP for medication to help build up your supply. I think it's domperidone, which is the anti-nausea medication. But please don't confuse what you might be getting out when expressing with what your baby gets out of you.

kellymom.com/hot-topics/frequent-nursing/

Kellymom is an excellent resource, I found it very useful.

Milk production is linked to time at the breast. You would have to be severely malnourished and dehydrated in order not to produce milk. Of course if you don't eat/drink/rest you will become knackered.

I think your little one is hungry, and is wanting to feed a lot because he wants to grow. He might also be feeding for comfort.

If you look back at the last week do you think you are in a better or worse position than then?

[captainproton]

D you record how long your baby feeds for, and how many feeds a day? Also record wet and dirty nappy output. Perhaps you could take it with you to see the counsellor for reassurance. But it might be worth spending the next couple of days confined to your bed/sofa to try and get relaxed and not flitting hither and thither with a newborn.

[Shantotto]

I only go to midwife appointments or bf support groups!

He's doing more wet nappies than this time last week. Dirty still a few days apart.

Rang a support line earlier and we think he might actually be feeding inefficiently. He can get very sleepy and there are really long pauses between sucks, which are quite light. I've tried changing halfway through, stripping him, putting him down and he still seems quite slow. I am sure he is barely swallowing - I don't hear it. I can see his jaw moving by his ear sometimes. The bf counsellor I see helps with latch and says it's good but we go wrong at home. Or its fine and I just have no confidence and don't believe it's working.

Happy to spend a day in bed with him but I cant manage the practically 24 hour attachment he was doing previously. Surely he should sleep?! The person I spoke to thought comfort sucking wouldn't so much for supply.

He feels quite chewy on the boob. I'm getting so much conflicting advice I've no idea what to do anymore.

[Shantotto]

Im recording in an app how many feeds. He's fed 8 times so far (and currently chomping the 9th as I type) - 3 formula, 2 60ml and a 20 ml. The others BF, both sides anything from 20 - 60ish minutes.

[captainproton]

Shantotto I haven't seen you so please take the advice of the BF counsellor over mine. I didn't mean you go out too much but didn't want to make you think you HAD to go to groups all the time.

It could be inefficient feeding and getting wound up and stressed at home is not going to help. I think you need to congratulate uourself on his weight gain, nappy output is fine, honestly dirty nappies can be days apart. My son did it once a week and boy did you know it wen it happened.

Practice makes perfect and I know you know this and you are praying for that day to arrive when he gets it! Focus on relaxing, and don't be afraid to take him off and relatch if necessary. You probably are already doing that. I think you are doing really well and let your dp feed him the bottle when you want to sleep.

[Shantotto]

Sorry if I sounded a bit snappy there! I'll have a last go with the person at the group on Friday. It's a drop in and she's so busy. I'll mention again I don't think he is being very efficient and add what happens. I'm trying so hard not to stress about it all! I want to sit all day with him on a boob but he's just chomping and making me sore and seemingly not swallowing so just seems like it wouldn't help.

I really appreciate all the time you are taking to reply to me, thank you! It is good to just get it out. :)

[captainproton]

Snap away it is fine! I am happy to reply, I've just had to explain to my 2 year old about why the fridge gets cold about 20 times. so a bit of mumsnet interaction is a nice change.