9w bf baby not putting on weight

[milktraylady]

Hi can you please advise me if there is anything else I can do to increase my milk supply?

DD is 9wks old (10w tomorrow) 5oz formula at midnight each night, sleeps til 5am ish most nights.

Other than that she's bf.

But here's the problem- she's been 4kg for 4 weeks at her weigh ins. She's gone down the centile chart from 50th to 2nd. She is 91st for length.
(I was a skinny baby too)

All HVs say she is too light & we need to top up more formula in the day.

But I don't want to - I didn't want to ff at all, (only doing midnight feed for my sanity as I can't survive on less than 4 hrs sleep) plus my milk should be enough right?

I spoke to la leche league lady who reckoned I wasn't feeding often enough. So for the last week I upped the feeds to every 2 hours. Still no weight gain

I am eating ok, drinking lots of water. Taking vitamin tablets. Started fenugreek yesterday (found this on Kelly mom website) in case this works to increase my supply.

So my question is- is there anything else I can do to increase my milk supply?
Or do I have to top up?

(Not sure if its relevant but I have been getting lots of blocked ducts, taking lecithin & more water & this is working)

I am really upset that my body can't make enough milk, is it a myth that everyone can bf? If there is ANYTHING else I can do- I will!

Thanks

[dancinglife]

Hope things are getting sorted for you.
I breastfed all of mine but had to feed lying down at night as too tired to sit up and its safer to be lying down in case you fall asleep while feeding. If you fall asleep when feeding lying down (never drink/take sleeping tabs, or have a heavy duvet on your bed - had kicked dh out of ours for a few months btw) babies are quite safe as they just fall asleep next to you and sometimes stay latched on - then you have the opposite problem of too much milk.

You could try this during the day too, if not happy with the idea of sleeping with her at night. The rest would do you so much good and you can't genuinely relax and rest away from them at this age anyway.

You do get much more sleep though and its impossible for you to accidentally 'smother' your baby - you are far too aware and switched onto to her even in the depths of sleep. I used to find that i'd rolled over with my baby and changed sides without really waking up.

Maybe this is a different thread - sleeping with a newborn. It is the reason they don't have their own little heating systems though until older - they would get too hot next to their mother's bodyheat - so babies are 'designed' for staying physically close.

[MigGril]

Well done and what a fab HV, how everything goes well from now on.

Really can't understand why TT are checked for at the new born check. Especially as they are so commune. Some Babies with TT can feed effectively, but it can be worth cutting it for other reasons.

[IdreamofFairies]

both my girls were very slow gainers happily dropped to the 2nd centile and stayed there.

my hv was lovely and i was never pressured to do anything differently. i ebf.

As far as she was concerned they were both always alert (very alert they were never still) happy smiley girls. my youngest weighed 17lb at a year old. she was under a pead totally unrelated to her weight and they had no concerns what so ever.

one size does not fit all and this works for growth charts.

if your little one seems happy and healthy to you plenty wet dirty nappies alert smiling. then i would take any advice about topping up with a pinch of salt.

[crikeybadger]

Yay....but it still amazes me how many tongue ties get diagnosed on an Internet forum. It really shouldn't have to be like that.

Fantastic that you've got some good help tho', here's to you having a pain free and enjoyable breastfeeding relationship.

[TeaMakesItAllPossible]

Hurrah. And remember that children come in all sizes - enjoy feeding

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

Well done OP.

[chocoluvva]

Fantastic news.

Really delighted for you

[milktraylady]

Just to update-gp says she does have a tongue tie. Nhs is a 3week wait. Too long, so going to go private.

Plus the HV was great! (UNICEF bf trained) she fixed our positioning & latch.
It no longer hurts & I'm sure she is getting more milk. And all the blockages are gone!

Phew!
I think it's brilliant that mumsnet diagnosed our tongue tie

[ChunkyChicken]

It's a relief to realise there might be a relatively straight forward solution. The lipstick nips to suggest the latch isn't right even without the TT... The trouble is, very few HVs are knowledgeable enough on bfing so will suggest the "easy" option of f top-ups. Which often impacts on supply, leading to more f etc etc.

I hope you get the issue resolved soon & have the bfing situation you want.

[milktraylady]

Right, looking at DD mouth after her yelling a bit when I changed her & comparing to the milk matters tt examples- it's a really obvious tongue tie!

I will aim to get it done ASAP this week. Really hope I can report back with happier bf story soon

In the meantime ff top ups so she's not hungry & hopefully my milk supply will increase when shes feeding properly so we don't need top ups/ or keep them & she puts on weight faster

Feeling sooo much better about this whole bf thang.
I knew there had to be a real reason behind the weight/ fussiness/ not sleeping/lipstick nips etc.
Feel like (a sleep deprived) Sherlock Holmes.

Again- thanks everyone

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

Can the HV force you to top up with formula?

No - DD is your baby, the HV can offer advice but the choices are yours to make, this really isn't uncommon but like sicky babies or cranky infants this doesn't get a lot of airtime - people prefer to accentuate the positive!

Anyway sounds like you may have the solution, chase this up and don't be embarrassed at challenging assumptions or "making a fuss". An inexperienced mother doesn't have to be taken less seriously than anyone else.

[ChunkyChicken]

Just jumping in on the TT issue.

I was told that 1 in 7 babies have it when DS had his cut. I think HCP just don't recognise it due to the rise in ff. They missed DS's even though his tongue had a tell-tale heart shape. Sometimes the baby's mouth is just too small to see clearly in the v early weeks, but obvious by 6+wks iyswim.

[SpanielFace]

I don't think they can grow, but they can certainly be missed. It sounds like it needs ruling out, at least.

[milktraylady]

Try I will call LLL that's a great idea.
I looked up the milk matters website- we have many of the problems listed under tt symptoms.

She was checked at birth for tt- I asked specifically for her to be checked. (Again mumsnet educated!) And told no.
Is it possible for a tt to manifest itself in the weeks following birth, as she grew?

I shall call my hospital right away!
Woman on mission!

[Tryharder]

If you ring your local LLL consultant, she will probably come out and see you at home before Thursday. Or ring up the hospital where you gave birth and ask to see the bf consultant straight away.

[milktraylady]

Thanks for the tt info.
Hopefully gp will refer us to the specialist for treatment quickly.

This might explain the 'lipstick' shaped nipples that just don't look right to me.

Wish me luck for a fast nhs referral!
How likely is that I wonder??

[SpanielFace]

Tongue tie is surprisingly common. About 1 in 10, apparently. I suspect most people with a tongue tied baby give up and switch to formula without ever having it picked up on, which is why you don't hear about it more often (apart from on forums!).

DS had his snipped at 8 weeks old, his was quite a major tie that was spotted at birth, but we were told in hospital that it won't cause him any problems, despite the fact that he couldn't actually stick his tongue out . Unfortunately it partially reattached, but we made the decision not to have it done a second time. I managed to EBF until 5.5 months, and he maintained on the 0.4 centile until then. At 5.5 months, his weight suddenly dropped off the bottom of the charts, and the HV started talking about failure to thrive, at which point I decided enough was enough and introduced top-ups. He's now 10 months and on the 91st centile for both height & weight - he just grew so much after I introduced formula (a pound a week at one point!), so it's clear that he really wasn't getting enough calories from me. All because of the tongue tie.

Some HV are of the opinion that if you have no pain, it can't be a tongue tie - this isn't true. The kellymom website has loads of good info, as does milkmatters - milkmatters.org.uk/2011/04/15/hidden-cause-of-feeding-problems-however-you-feed-your-baby/

Good luck!

[chocoluvva]

Many mums have major problems with BF, but manage to BF for more than a year. I think the health professionals don't want to scare new mums. It was a huge shock for me certainly. It took a lot of obstinacy determination to persevere and caused a lot of anguish.

[chocoluvva]

Tongue-tie is extremely easy to fix. My DN got an appointment with a nurse who sorted his tongue. (Actually, I wonder if my skinny DS has a slight tongue-tie). I'm not sure, but I think it's usually done in hospital just in case of excessive bleeding. Apparently DN had almost no bleeding and barely cried. The nurse snipped the membrane, slung the scissors in a bin and pronounced it was, "All done".

But really, stories of healthy babies gaining weight slowly are quite common even wihout a tongue-tie.

That's very encouraging for you. If your DD has a tongue-tie then presumably your supply will gradually have been getting less from the prolonged effect of getting less stimulation from your baby.

[milktraylady]

Just facetimed with my dentist sister- her tongue is on a wonk!(dd not sister!)
Definitely not right.
Will see gp tomorrow and ask for a referral.

Does anyone know the nhs process after that?

Tea THANKYOU for suggesting tongue tue!
I knew mumsnet would have the answer!

[tumbletumble]

The HV can't force you to give formula. It's your choice entirely.

[milktraylady]

Blimey cocoluvva- normal??
I had no idea this bf malarkey would be so bloody difficult.

(Love the name btw )

[chocoluvva]

Your post brings back so many memories milktraylady

Please try not to worry or feel bad - so much easier said than done I know - I'm another one who had a good-sized baby who slipped down the centiles and is now a tall, very skinny, energetic teenager.

You're probably at the most difficult time now - sleep-deprived for many weeks now - it will start to get easier before too much longer. Try to take things one day/morning/couple of hours at a time and keep giving yourself a pat on the back for getting through another day. Many mums do find this stage extremely difficult - it's 'normal' I'm afraid. Get as much help as you can and go for the convenience option whenever you can too.

[ChunkyPickle]

Lastly, don't stress about how much you can express - it's no indicator of anything, it would take me 3 days to express enough for a bottle, but DS was EBF until 6 months, and kept it up until he was 2.5.

Some of us just aren't made to express it seems.

[StuntNun]

I would offer the breast as often as you can, you could express milk after feeds to stimulate your supply and give that instead of the formula. If you want to increase your supply then feeding (or expressing) between 2 and 5 a.m. would help due to the breastfeeding hormones being at their highest then. One of the women on my birth club had her DH giving a night bottle so that she could sleep and her milk supply dropped disastrously. Also dropping percentiles can be normal, sometimes a baby has to find their own percentile. My DS1 dropped from the 50th to the 2nd but then he stayed on the 2nd consistently from then on.