EBF 9 week old dropping centiles..

[TitaniaP]

Hi - sorry in advance for the mammoth post.

My DS will be 9 weeks on weds and has up until now been exclusively bf. He was 7lb 4oz born, and lost 9.5% by day 4. He didn't feed much at all for the first 48 hours (couldn't wake him up/latch him on). He took nearly 4 weeks to gain his birth weight and since then has gained between 4-5 oz a week. He is now hovering between .4 and 2nd centile and was 8lb 10 last Wednesday (at 8 weeks) (was born at 25th and was at 9th at 2 weeks)

I've been seeing the infant feeding specialist (who is excellent) at our local hospital since he was 2 weeks old and she helped me sort out his latch. I feed on demand upwards of 10 times a day and he doesn't ever go more than 4 hours at night.

He does make a clicking sound when feeding but the world and his wife have checked him for TT and posterior TT). I've seen 3-4 different peer supporters at different support groups plus weekly visits to the support group at the hospital. Everyone says his latch and attachment look OK. Also I'm not sore.

His nappies seem OK (plenty of wet and a couple of dirty per day). I've been talking domperidone for two weeks which doesn't seem to have made much difference. I struggle to express (I realise this is no indication) and never get more than about 20ml and sometimes much less ( I have a medela swing and continue pumping after flow stops to no avail). I never really feel full and my breasts don't leak (and never really have done).

I co-sleep, use a sling, feed in the bath, and do plenty of skin to skin, and breast compressions (as I believe they are all supposed to help increase milk production or transfer). My baby is very unsettled - will spend hours at the breast and cries a lot throughout the day. He often pulls off the breast crying too. I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the unsettled behaviour is due to hunger and that I'm going to need to top him up with formula.

I really don't want to do this. I want to ebf my baby boy and it's really upsetting me the thought of giving him formula. So I guess my questions are:

1. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can increase his weight gain without giving formula, given that everyone thinks his latch is fine and it's not TT - is there anything else it could be?
   

1. Also if I do give him a top up, will this be the beginning of the end of my bf relationship (had planned to continue to a year at least)?
   

The HVs don't seem worried - but surely this slow gain together with the bouts of screaming aren't right?

Sorry for the mammoth post - and thanks in advance if anyone reads for long enough to reply.

[tiktok]

I did not say that, though.

I said "The OP's baby has to do a lot of catch up from a difficult start and this has to be taken into account. Weight gain seems within normal limits now, and if all else is well, then it may well be a case of just waiting, feeding often, and ensuring that no opportunity to get milk into the baby is missed....I think 10 times a day is actually not very often for a baby in this situation, and it doesnt sound as if switch nursing has been tried, either. So there may well be further options to try, and maybe you can discuss these, Titania, with the real life support you have?

A baby who's unsettled may well be going short of calories, and more breastfeeding is usually the answer to that, but if not then judicious use of formula top ups is sometimes an option - but it should be last on the list, with a baby whose health and growth is not really an urgent issue.

I don't always find it reassuring when HVs say nothing is amiss, by the way. I come across plenty of situations when they simply don't really know what to do, and they overlook sometimes quite serious difficulties in the hope they will resolve themselves. I don't know if this is the case here, obv.

OP, maybe now is the time to consult again with whoever you trust most?"

There is nothing there at all that gives advice, tells her not to give formula, and indeed I am careful to say we don't know what is going on fully.....and that the OP could usefully seek more info.

The HCPs had told this OP all was well....and I even suggested this reassurance could be questioned.

I stand by what I said.

[PenguinArmy]

It can you seem to be insisting elsewhere it does, glad we've cleared up that part then.

The baby has been a gaining an average amount of weight. Also FF can exacerbate some problems e.g reflux.

besides 1 in every 250 babies isn't terribly uncommon. That's a lot of babies in the UK if you add them all up. Besides the OPs baby is between 0.4th and 2nd which is a rather large scope.

You've made your point, people have countered. this isn't going anywhere apart from you seemingly have a grudge against tiktok

again apologies to OP for hijacking of thread

[tiktok]

Penguin - thanks.

The situation we were discussing was one where the baby's weight and health were not considered to be a cause for concern by the HCPs - they, as I indicated, could be wrong. But if they were right in that all was really well, then of course formula would be a last resort, because why would you intro formula to a healthy (though small, though growing) baby whose mother strongly did not want to use it and wanted to continue ebf?

I urged the OP to question her HCPs, explore options with them, and to take all the info into account. Nowt wrong with that!

I have to stop posting now as my laptop is running out of battery, but I am a bit sad a potentially useful thread was hi-jacked by someone with something deeply personal against me :(

[PenguinArmy]

I am sorry you are having to deal with this as well tiktok

[RitaMorgan]

Are you a medical professional Harper? Have you examined the OP's baby? Or is this all just irresponsible posturing from you?

Tiktok didn't presume to tell the OP whether to give formula or not, yet for some reason you seem to feel you are in a position to dispense health advice.

[buttonmoon78]

This is getting more and more odd

[crikeybadger]

I hope you don't take this too personally though tiktok, although it does seem be to be that way.

There is obviously something else going on here, some personal experience that is causing HarperSeven to behave in this way.

Care to elaborate HarperSeven?

[tiktok]

Thanks, badger - I'm not upset or hurt or anything, but I certainly do take it personally! I mean, when someone - even a stranger on the internet - says you are being terrifying, and irresponsible, and have an agenda and makes other personal remarks plus goodness knows what else was said in the post that mumsnet deleted, and they do mean it personally, for whatever reason, well....yes....it's personal, innit? :)

[buttonmoon78]

Don't sweat the deleted post tiktok it wasn't particularly any worse than any of the others. I think it was just that maternelle had had enough (and the rest of us too).

[crikeybadger]

Yes, I see what you mean about it being personal tiktok. I just wonder if HarperSeven would have been so obnoxious to you if she didn't know that you worked for the NCT. Maybe she has a problem with them?

Whatever the issue is though, there is no excuse for personal attacks.

[debka]

If you come back to this thread tiktok I just wanted to say how grateful I am that you are on MN and give such fantastic advice. Neither of my girls have had a bottle or an ounce of formula and you have helped me to do that.

Thank you.

[tiktok]

Thank you, debka :)