JUNE BOOK OF THE MONTH DISCUSSION - come here on Tuesday 1st July for our June bookclub chat

[TillyBookClub]

this is the thread to come to for June's Bookclub chat on Tues 1st July - I'll keep you posted about the author chat..

[fryalot]

mini book swap here

I thought the photograph idea was a good one, and I thought it added another dimension to the story. It was a good way of "setting the scene"

[billybass]

I liked the theme of the photographs. I enjoyed the descriptions unfolding.

It also made me think how would I describe my life and if I chose photographs what would I choose?

[Marina]

Same here billybass, I didn't find it too contrived - and JC's prose is so lovely to read I honestly don't mind

[TillyBookClub]

Do we think it was all Beatrix's mother's fault (she started the chain of abuse)? or was it Beatrix's (and Thea's) responsibility to walk away from the cruelty they suffered and try to make a better life for their own children?

Is there any excuse for Thea's shaking of Imogen? It seems like the book makes a point of saying there is pattern behind all this. But I feel she should have taken control of herself - there's no excuse.

[lalaa]

I didn't like the photograph idea very much, but maybe that's because I get impatient with lots of description.

[wheelybug]

I have read House of Sleep although a very long time ago - it was my first Coe !

I agree about this being very different though (although my memory is a bit hazy of HoS). I think if I'd read it blind I would never have guessed the author but I guess that's testament to Jonathan Coe's versatility.

I too liked the framework of the photographs - gave the stories a very visual quality. Although I did question whether they would have taken as many photos as they seemed to have done at the start of the story given the timeframe.

[lalaa]

I think that Beatrix and Thea should have taken personal responsibility for their actions and tried their utmost to break the cycle. I blame Beatrix more than Thea though.

[Marina]

The monstrous Ivy and her husband are quite well-to-do though, aren't they - might that explain the seeming luxury of a camera
I see Ivy's vile treatment of Beatrix over that revolting dog as the start of the process that ends with Imogen's blindness

[Marina]

Back after putting dcs to bed

[TillyBookClub]

love that idea billybass, I'm lost in trying to think about which photos i'd choose now. And thinking about future photos there may be once I'm Rosamund's age (like me with my own grandchildren. weird thought)

I thought the descriptive prose was beautiful too. I did sort of wish there were photos included in the book, I kept wanting to see the faces.

[fryalot]

I blamed Beatrix more than Thea, but whether that was because we learned more about Beatrix's selfishness throughout the book, I don't know.

Did everyone think that Rosamund blamed herself for Imogen's blindness? if she had fought harder to keep Thea, then presumably things would have been different (although she may not have been born in the first place)

[billybass]

I would have liked the characters to have broken the pattern. I found it infuriating that they didn't. Did Beatrix's mum get badly treated too? I suspect the fault lines would have run back through the generations.

I liked to think that Imogen was happily married with lovely children who adored her. I am a sucker for a happy ending though.

[wheelybug]

I agree that the cycle of violence started with Ivy. Her contempt for her daughter must have had quite an impact on her. However, that doesn't excuse Beatrix or Thea who could have broken the cycle of violence. However, don't they often say that abusers are those who have been abused ?

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[lemurtamer]

I didn't get the feeling that she did blame herself for Imogen's blindness, but that overall while she felt very strongly about Thea and then Imogen, also had lost contact or been prevented from contact during some points. When she insists that she should look after Imogen and the social worker points out they hardly know each it flags up how much of the connection is just Rosamund creating it, not a two-way thing.

[lalaa]

yes, squonk, agree about Rosamund losing Thea and blaming herself for Imogen's blindness. It's as though she thinks she would have stopped the cycle if she'd been the 'mother figure' she wanted to be.

[TillyBookClub]

I think Rosamund must have felt embroiled in all that unhappiness and felt guilt that she couldn't do anything about it. I don't know if I felt she blamed herself for the blindness specifically.

Its quite odd reading a book with all female characters isn't it. Not sure I've ever read one that's entirely female before.

[billybass]

I felt as though Rosamund wasn't putting Imogen's needs first however but wanted contact with Imogen as a way of staying in contact with Thea.

[TillyBookClub]

yes, lemurtamer, I felt that Rosamund was after Imogen for her own reasons. I thought Imogen would somehow suffer even more emotional baggage if Rosamund was looking after her. I wanted Imogen to be entirely free of the whole lot of them.

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[fryalot]

I have noticed that book club threads often get like that, pruners

[lemurtamer]

It was quite surprising that Rebecca didn't come back into the narrative, and that neither we nor Rosamund ever found out why she left. While many men in real life and fiction have done this, I would have thought it was more rare in a woman. And so Rosamund never seemed to really get over this loss and the loss of Thea.

[lemurtamer]

Another seemingly random post: the curious thing about this book to me is the reverse situation with photos and the older generation, my grandmother. She started losing her sight in her 50s, and in a fury destroyed most of the family photos, because she didn't want people laughing at the clothes they used to wear. My father did find some more eventually, and we had to try to piece together who was who in the pictures, as by that time my grandmother couldn't see them at all. So we described pictures to her and she tried to remember who was in them.

[fryalot]

re: rebecca - I got the impression that she loved the family life that they had with Thea that she left and married a bloke and had kids... didn't Rosamund see her in a cafe with a bloke and some children?

anyway, that was the impression that I got