Got post mortem results through today....

[desperatehousewife]

Had scary meeting with consultant today to be given results of the post mortem - it's been a long long 6 weeks waiting for it.

It was totally inconclusive - which i'm fairly relieved about. At least I don't have to blame myself or blame my body for not functioning properly.

It's hard not having a reason for why it happened and seems such a waste - but it does mean that I can (if I can ever pluck up the courage again) get pregnant and know that it should go smoothly (touch wood/caveat and any number of superstitious things!!)

This has been hanging over my head like a ton of bricks and I am just so relieved that it is over. Only one last thing to do now (decide what on earth to do with his ashes) then it is all over - we can try to move on.

I'm under no illusion that there will still be many ups and downs to come.

Thanks to everyone for yr support.

DHWx

[Marina]

It's kind of casting about to find some positive outcome for a very traumatic and sad experience, I think. Using your knowledge of the issues to try and support other families, and campaign for better awareness.
It was SANDS that campaigned successfully for the gestational age at which a stillborn baby can be registered to come down from 28 weeks to 24. They wanted 20 weeks, but did not succeed.
What they also did was work with undertakers to provide a more sensitive service to parents with very small babies and no death certificate. Our local funeral directors did Tom's funeral entirely free of charge (not a large one, granted, but still supplying a car and staff and everything else. They were so unexpectedly kind).

[desperatehousewife]

fantastic - go for it - how great to be able to use terrible experience to help others. I'd like to do it too i think.

[Marina]

Sadly not "my" Charlotte DHW. So glad you found someone to talk to though
I hope to become a Befriender either this year or next. I think my own experiences are far enough behind me now for them to help me try to help others rather than still occasionally muddying the waters of objective empathy IYSWIM

[desperatehousewife]

marina

i got in contact with sands the day after it happened! I was straight on the phone. They were great. I met up with my local sands volunteer just after xmas - we had a coffee and she was fantastic - great to talk to someone who had experience. She did not go on to have another child though (she adopted).

The other befriender where I live is called charlotte - don't suppose it would be the same one would it? (Mitchell I think).

[Marina]

It does seem to be a big issue for women to deal with at the time (ie, it makes the pregnancy fraught and the time around birth bittersweet).
BUT several of my SANDS friends said it didn't matter when they got pregnant again (ie, right away, or some time later)...they still found pregnancy stressful and the birth an additionally emotional time.
So I think what I am saying is that although my pregnancy with dd was hard going, and having her so near the anniversary was hard too, those are feelings that are in the past for us, and the pleasure of having her has helped us hugely. We remember Tom with love always, and sadness on his special days (anniversary of due date and anniversary of birth) of course.
The advice now seems to run along the lines of TTC when you feel ready, be prepared for the pregnancy to be that bit more stressful than the norm, and, however you are feeling during the pregnancy, it's normal for women who have experienced stillbirth or miscarriage before.
DHW, there is some good stuff on all of this in the books I am sending you. I hope they help.
My other top tip would be, even if you have not wanted to contact SANDS before now, many branches have Befrienders to whom you can talk about being pregnant again after a baby has died. My Befriender, Charlotte, moved house after dd was born, and we lost contact, but if by any chance she is a Mner, I'd like her to know that she saved my sanity and I will never forget her empathy and generosity.

[cori]

DHW-
I cant advise and obviously you had a lot later loss than me. I am also 35 (36 in June) and DS will be four soon. You have to do what you feel is right, but my concern is that there are greater risk of M/C etc the older you get.

I think Marina is saying many women decide not too wait because they feel will be more fertile straight after.

[desperatehousewife]

that's a lot to have to deal with isn't it on top of everything Marina.

So with your experience, would you advise me (at 35 this month, with one 3.5yr old) to wait some time before i ttc? In an ideal world I would like 2 children, so this would be my last chance and already the age gap will now be pretty hefty. But not the end of the world I know.

[Marina]

Happened with us.
If dd had gone full-term she would have been born within a fortnight of the anniversary of ds2's stillbirth. She was born by elective c-section a few days before that (not because we asked, there were medical reasons) but still too close for comfort if I'm honest. We had hoped for a VBAC for her and I was already very upset at the thought that if they made us go to 42 weeks before an elective she might well be born on the day itself
Hope all is well with you cori and sending SC and DHW positive vibes...
Although many doctors pooh-pooh this, anecdotal evidence suggests that you may be more fertile than usual after a miscarriage or stillbirth, just as non-breastfeeding women are after a successful term delivery. I think this is why a lot of women choose to disregard the medical profession's advice to wait a while before TTCing.
In my case, I felt I had nothing else to lose. I was 39 and had been trying for ds2 for nearly two years. I did actually think I would never get pregnant again...

[spacecadet]

dhw, i just wanted to add that despite everything you are going through, you are going out on a limb for me too, you are a truly lovely person.

[cori]

really, have not heard that myself. I actually got a bit of shock as I was typing that message, I hadnt realised it would be in the same week.

Not sure how I feel about that TBH.

[desperatehousewife]

Cori - i've heard so many similar stories of womean having babies on or around the anniversary date...weird how that happens isn't it?

[cori]

Hi DHW,
We never found out a reason for the loss of our baby either. In a way it was a bit of a relief really. At least it meant that the chances of it happening again were slim. The meeting with the consultant gave us some closure. We didnt have any ashes, as baby was too small(and wouldnt have known what to do with them) but we did have a tree planted in a forest, ( with trees for life) which I was planning on visiting on the anniversary of the M/C (however have just realised that this baby is due in the same week I had the miscarriage last year. )

[Marina]

Sorry, I remember you are Brighton now. I am sure such a hip city has either a Woodland Trust site or a green burial ground if that option appeals.
CAT me with your address and please do not worry about P & P

[desperatehousewife]

thanks for your lovely words calebsmummy and marina - means a lot.

marina, i'd love those books - I have all sorts of questions about how i'll feel if i do take the plunge (and if i were a betting woman, i would lay money that I will!).

I would be very happy to pay for p&p.

If we have a tree it has to be here in Brighton - where he was born.

[calebsmummy]

It is a bit like a 'to do' list isn't it, dhw. But only in the sense that when all of the things you 'need' to do are done you can start to mend yourself as much as you can be mended. I guess all of these things 'to do' are a part of what we have to go through to help us get through those awful first weeks/months. You are doing so well, I don't know you but you make me feel very proud of you!

I know what you mean about not planting a tree in your garden, it is exactly why we haven't yet as we aren't in the place we will stay forever and I couldn't bear to leave my baby's tree behind! When my FIL passed away in July we planted a tree at his sailing club. It was more for the grandsons, a sort of goodbye for them and something they can watch grow. It will always be there. They asked us if we wanted to place a plaque there but we said no, as we know where it is and why and that is what is important.

You will find the right thing to do eventually.

Take care x

[Marina]

DHW, there is a SANDS memorial garden at the National Arboretum in Alrewas, in Staffs. Or you could enquire if there is a woodland burial ground near where you live (big one in Surrey and the one in S London is at Nunhead Cemetery).
We chose not to have ashes for ds2 because we knew we would be unable to deal with what to do with them afterwards.
We couldn't get a tree rightaway either because of the expectation we'd kill that too, but we did feel able to some months later. It's in our garden because we know we're not moving for the foreseeable future, and it brings us a lot of quiet happiness to see it growing.
When you do feel ready to TTC again I have got a couple of books I bought that were written for women in this position (both American, surprise surprise, but one in particular I found really useful despite the antenatal advice not relating to the NHS). Please let me know if you want them. I'd like them to go to a good home IYSWIM.
I must say I think you are being very strong and sensible about the inconclusive PM. Ours was too, and I had the same conversation with our consultant...one of those things...but a "better" result if you want to try again than some definite cause for the baby's death - and it made me toweringly angry and very sad indeed for a time. If I'm honest, the randomness of ds2's death still hurts sometimes.
But like you and gggl, I realised on some level that the statistical odds were therefore better for another pregnancy, and we had dd just a year later.
Wishing you lots of luck and love XXX

[KeepingMum]

Dear Desperatehousewife, I am glad that you finall got your babies PM results and that they have not caused distress. I can't imagine what you must feel like in this situation.
I just wanted to let you know that there is a charity called the Woodland Trust who let you sponsor trees, I sponsored one for our son when he was born. I don;t think they are marked, they just tell you where the wood is, but at least you know the wood was being looked after, I wonder if this would be an option. You could then visit the would and scatter the ashes under any chosen tree. It is very difficult decision, we still haven't done anything with my dads ashes, and he died 4 years ago. I hope you are getting lots of support. Thinking of you

[desperatehousewife]

thanks cm

we initially wanted to plant the ashes with a tree somewhere - but cannot find anywhere to do this - need to know that tree will be looked after and tended and that it is 'our' tree! Don't want it marked or anything - just need to know which is our tree.

Cannot plant the tree in my own garden as we will be moving over the next couple of years. Also don't want the responsibility of the tree dying.

I have just held my first baby today - a friend's 10 week old. Was quite a big thing for me, but it felt absolutely fine. I think because the baby was a girl and not a new born.

Another thing ticked off (do you get a sense that I am treating this like a 'to do list'?!!)

[calebsmummy]

Hi DHW,

I am glad you finally got your babies PM results back. You are so right, it is another thing to have dealt with. You definatlely will still have ups and downs though.

I agree with bubble about his ashes. You really must give yourself time, find the perfect place and then you won't have any regrets. It's only been 6 weeks, your emotions will still be way up in the air. I know I have regrets. Cai was buried in Bristol and I know I wished very soon after that I had had him buried in my home town as I knew I wouldn't want to stay in Bristol. As it is now, he is so far away I rarely get to visit his grave and feel dreadful about that. So please take your time. A lot people I know have planted a special tree or plant in memory of their baby and buried the ashes with that.

Take care DHW. Still thinking of you x

[ggglimpopo]

Message withdrawn

[desperatehousewife]

will take this on board - thanks everyone. Will discuss hanging onto them until we feel really comfortable about our decision.
x

[spacecadet]

can only reiterate what everyone else has said, dont be in a hurry, now you have had the results, you can step another step forward in the grieving process, but when the time is right, you will know where you want to scatter your little ones ashes.

[bubble99]

I totally understand that you want to move on and get over this. You will, but I also think that you both need to feel right about where you scatter his ashes. Give yourself time.

[oops]

Message withdrawn

[zephyrcat]

Hiya DHW. I'm with Bubble - don't feel rushed to do anything, take your time to decide what feels right for you and dh. In a way it's a good thing that it was inconclusive but at the same time doesn't give that conclusive reason. I think about you a lot and hope that you are doing ok. xx