Delayed Speech in 2yr old: GP or HV???

[ConnorTraceptive]

I'm fairly concerned about ds2's speech now and want to seek some advice. Who should be the first point of call GP or HV?

[maxybrown]

Yes they talk to him like that and he does kind of look at them like "what on earth are you doing?" we look at books sing etc etc he never ahd a dummy or a bottle, I've done everything "right" for want of a better word! Even the salt thinks he just doesn't need to bother with talking just yet!

Will see how the group goes this afternoon

[allaboutme]

DS1 got referred to SALT by my HV. Seems to be the quickest way round here

[TheBronzeHorseman]

Maxy, could you please give us an update later on how you get on at the group? My DS (currently 2.5) sounds EXACTLY like yours - very few words but otherwise very with it and there is definitely no problem with his hearing. We are a bilingual family so I have been blaming the delay on that but am starting to wonder if I should be taking any further action?

[sheeplikessleep]

I rang up my HV a few weeks ago (DS is 2.4 and says about 20 words total, half of which are unrecognisable to others) to chat to her about his speech. She's referred him for a hearing test first (SALT won't look at him until he gets all clear on hearing) and we're on the SALT waiting list (which is 16 weeks long in our area).

DS always has very waxy ears (to the point where other people have commented on it) ... does anyone know if this could be a hearing problem (I didn't think it was, as he appears to hear everything to us)?

Thanks

[LilyBolero]

Both ds1 and ds2 have had very waxy ears (it's grim, browny black wax hanging out!!!) but this isn't a sign of hearing loss - ds1 has never had any problems, and I asked about ds2's and they said there was not correlation. He had hearing loss because of fluid in his middle ear (glue ear).

I do think the understanding is a better thing to focus on at age 2 - I remember a friend's ds having lots of 'words', and even some sentences, but he had fairly severe autism, and so although he had 'learned' phrases, he didn't understand langauge spoken to him, he had simply learned that a particular phrase was appropriate at a particular time. If the understanding is there then the spoken words will follow.

Certainly with ds2 they said he had delayed speech, but that cognitive (understood) language was where it should be, and this is borne out by his rapid progress in the last 6 months.

[lingle]

You are definitely supposed to do hearing tests first. However, my DS2 couldn't comply with it, as they conducted one for the 3+ age group even though I told them that the very nature of his problem was that he didn't understand language as a 3-year-old should.

that was my first warning I suppose that the only people who were going to help DS2 to any degree were me, DH, the nursery we moved him to and the mumsnet special needs board. SALTS are the people to assess the problem, but it's usually you that actually accelerates the language development.

I had trained myself up and was really taking action by the time he was 2.9, and I already had experience because his older brother was delayed too.

In retrospect, I'd have started work at 2.0, not 2.9, so I don't think 2.0 is too early to worry.

[sheeplikessleep]

thanks for posting lily - good to hear there is no correlation.
sorry for thread hijack

[maxybrown]

Yes lily agree! Also pointing is a key factor.

I will let you all know how it goes! Am dreading it to be honest. It is between 3 and 4....apologies if I have said that already!

Interesting sheep that yours has to have hearing test before he is seen? My DS never had a hearing test, though the other evening, DH went to test ride a motorbike and me and DS stayed with the man in his garage, DS "told" us that he could hear Daddy coming back, we couldn't so I said noooo. Then couple of sexconds later, I heard him!!

Anyway, best dash, be back later.

[ConnorTraceptive]

Lingle what sort of things did you train yourself up on to help your ds? Even if it comes back that ds2 doesn't have a problem I would like to try to do something to help him along just in case

[lingle]

Connor,

Lots of close observation.
Joining the mumsnet special needs board (though I look at some of my first posts and they are not at all objective -! rather over-optimistic!)

Getting the book I mention in the following thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/914440-so-when-should-i-get-worried-about-toddler-not-tal king

Also also a fantastic book by Linda Hodgson about visual aids.

You do have to research it quite a bit. I remember with great annoyance how DS2 and I used to walk up the hill from nursery when he was about 2.4 pointing out each car saying "what's that? it's a car? What's that? it's a window!". It was a sweet game to play together but completely pointless in terms of language development. Still, never mind, we are getting there fast now at 4.6.

[ConnorTraceptive]

Thanks Lingle I going to see if my local library can order it in first if not I shall buy it. I think it would be a usefull thing to have

[LilyBolero]

Connor, if you can get a picture book with lots of 'every day pictures' they are really good for flicking through and doing the 'sentence build up'. I have one which has one page which is a park, with lots of different things going on, then another page is a kitchen, another is a school etc. But lots of different things to look at.

Make sure you speak really clearly and slowly!

Try giving him little instructions - to start with use 1 step instructions, then build up to 2 step - eg "Get your shoes" then "Go and get your coat and shoes" etc. That should give you a clue if he is processing language.

[LilyBolero]

Also, wrt to hearing, with ds2, he was missing low frequency sounds, so we hadn't spotted he had hearing loss, because he could still 'hear' iyswim, but for speech development you need the full range of frequencies.

[ConnorTraceptive]

Thanks lily. You've made realise that actually ds does process language as he can follow lots of simple instructions such as "sit on the step so we can do your shoes", "put the cup back", "Do you want your gloves?" etc so I guess that is positive

[LilyBolero]

That's really all you really want at this stage Connor - if they're processing language then they probably don't have a 'language disorder'. With ds2 I was very confident that his language was fine, it was his speech that was delayed, which I think was a mixture of hearing loss and v mild hypotonia.

Certainly with ds2, once he started 'getting' speech it was quite fast (albeit about 12 months late - most of his spoken language has come since he was 3), friends who had more of a language disorder were much slower even once progression started to happen.

Do try some Makaton with him - I was STUNNED when I realised that was what ds2 was using - and it really did make a difference to his ability to communicate - because it is quite 'pictorial' I was interpreting it without realising that's what he was doing - I thought he was just gesturing. But it really helped alleviate the frustration of not being able to be understood through speech alone.

[maxybrown]

Well we're back!!

The women were really nice and not patronising so that was good!

There were two other children, 1 who i think does have delay, she was not with it an dnot at all aware of anything that was going on. Then a boy who was with it but very very very clingy to his mum, so my confident I can do it by myself son stuck out like a sore thumb Not because he is a pain (he is very very good I must say) but the whole thing was very slow, but it went ok and they were nice. As others have said, not sure if it will make a difference to him talking, I think he would probably be better on his own as we spent most of the time with them trying to cajole the boy into doing something and the girl trying to get her to focus

The main issue is the bloomin time, Ds was shattered and a bit cranky and fell asleep on the bus coing home.

They did say it is good he uses correct syllables and intonation for words even though it is from the back of his throat and not actual words. Plus they though him very expressive so all positive really.

[Jazzymac]

My DD is now 4 1/2. At 3 we were trying to get him to pronounce words properly and he started crying say he was. that was when we realised there was a problem. Spoke to the Dr who refered him for a hearing test. We were advised by the consultant that he had glue ear, needed grommits, tonsils and adanoids. He was not referred to speech therapy, I had to contact health visitor who arranged it. Managed two sessions before he started school last Sept. He has had some sucess in school with teacher and speech therapist, but now a year on and his grommits have come out. He had a hearing test in Jan, and his ears are blocked again. Much more noticable now as he constantly says "pardon mummy". They will not put the grommits back in until he has been tested again late in Spring. He speech is suffering again. He has semi masters 'f' and 's' at the begining of words, but not within. And now he appears to be having difficulties with 'r' as a second letter ie tree. I am going to ring the hospital and see if i can speed up his consultants appointment. But you do need to push for your son to be seen.

[maxybrown]

I think I have been very lucky in that we got seen straight away, though DS speech is very very very limited!!

Though no hearing problems etc.

[lilmamma]

iam asking on behalf on my daughter,at what age would you worry about your childs speech ? her son is 2 at the end of December.she has noticed a lot of her friends children can say a lot more and some are younger,he can say dadda and mama.but doesnt use them often,he makes noises,like if he drops something he does like a homer simpson "duh" !! or goes oooooh,he is very bright otherwise,and can make himself understood,my daughter was very quick with her speech,but her younger brother was about 2 and a half,i have reassured her, but just wondered if anyone has any views on this,thanks .

[jenduck]

OK, sorry to hijack, but following this thread with great interest (and have read other thread linked to).

DS2 is 19.5 months, with a big brother who talks non-stop & followed the usual 'milestones' for speech/languages. DS2 does not have any words at all. He babbles - dada, dayday, deardear, yehyeh, a a a. He also makes surprised/interested noises (two-tone kind of 'ooh/oh')

The thing that really concerns me is that he doesn't point at things that interest him in the distance (well, has done so twice). He points at things in books (although not eg where's the cow?), and at facial features, but he does not point at eg the tractor in the field. HV came round when he was almost 18m, as I was panicking, & she said it was fine as he waves (on demand mostly) & claps (on demand & after others do). She also said it was to be expected as I was 23m when I first talked.

He communicates in other ways - looks at me when he finds a toy funny, has started bringing change mat when done a poo, brings me toys (also holds phone up for me to speak on). He also laughs at/with his brother, as well as at pictures/tv/sounds. He shakes his head/pushes hand away if he doesn't want any more food/drink.

He follows simple commands - no, sit down, come here, get in your highchair (sometimes), give it to Mummy, put it in the box. He mostly responds to his name, unless he is otherwise engaged.

He is a very affectionate child & often climbs on people's laps for cuddles (mostly me, but also, randomly, another mum at toddler group!). He also loves to climb!

He is very laid back & has been quite slow to do everything so far - crawled at 12m, walked at 17m, clapping at 17m, waving at 18m, self-feeding in last couple of months. DH thinks he is just lazy & I compare him too much to DS1 who was the opposite of this, but I do worry!

[CocoPopsAddict]

I will just say, anecdotally, that my grandmother swears my father didn't say a single word until he was 2. He grew up to have no development issues whatsoever, and is in fact exceptionally academically able. So not speaking by 2 doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem. She said he seemed to be storing it up until he'd got the hang of it because his speech went from zero to reasonably fluent very quickly.

If your child is communicating with you in other ways then they could be following this pattern.

[Emsyboo]

My DS is 2 in jan says no words at all still young but he signs and understands language got the hv round who said his language was great but refered to speech therapy as their is a long list and will be older than 2 by the time he gets seen.
She said that better to get him in the system and cancel if he no longer needs it than risk him losing confidence with a late referral.
I thought this was good advice and feel happier and optimistic about it. Hearing more about late talkers but I would push to be seen better to spot any problems early and get in the right track IMO let us know how you get on x x

[narmada]

connor you mentioned your DS possibly had a tongue tie - has this been properly assessed by someone who really knows what they are looking for? Innocuous-looking 'minor' ties can cause major problems, and conversely seemingly major ones can cause no issues whatsoever.

You would hope a speech therapist would be able to assess a tie, but TBH I don't have much faith in anyone except surgeons with a special interest in this area or lactation consultants who are also tongue tie dividers. If anyone looks in his mouth and just opines that it seems ok or not too restricted....well, see someone else who will check it properly by analysing how his tongue moves in his mouth, would be my advice!

[lljkk]

ZOMBIE THREAD, so I think Connor long gone.
Jenduck does your DS follow a point? If you point at something, does he look at your finger or at what you're pointing at?

[narmada]

Ohhhhhhh. Ooops.