Worrying behaviour

[sapphire]

My son, aged four, recently became obsessed with bottoms and willies at school, and for a fe months he and two other little boys would disappear into the toilets and touch each others bottoms. Eventually my son was moved to a different nursery session where everything was okay for a while, but then just befor the holidays he firstly put his finger up another boy's bottom (according to the other boy) and then put his hand down a girl's knickers. The school and one of the parents have alerted social services who are coming to visit me next week, and I have seen my doctor who is referring Son to a child psychologist.

Everyone professional I talk to seems to think that he is showing overtly sexual behaviour and that it can only have come about because he has been abused somewhere down the line. He has had a tough year as his father and I separated, but I am 100% convinced that nothing untoward has happened to him either in my home or his father's. Friends seem to think he is just being a bit overcurious and its fairly natural behaviour that he will grow out of. Has anyone encountered similar behaviour at all?

[tigermoth]

It's given me pause for thought, too, suedonim. I'd put both incidents are in the worrying but not extreme category, ie needs to be knocked on the head but not a sure indicator of abuse - However, I think there is one big difference between this and the letter situation, though.

This incident involves outsiders whose decisions can have a huge impact on the family - the school, social services etc. Whatever happens, there's the probability of a report. The parents do not have full control over events, so I think it's totally right for them to question what is going on at every stage - even if the professionals concerned are as conscientious as Jaytree.

The letter situation involved the families of the children only, and was probably resolvable by them alone.

[Janeway]

It's difficult when one person's curiosity intrudes on another person's dignity.

I remember at about 4yo disappearing off under a weeping willow with the boy next door (by mutual consent) to see if girls & boys bums were the same - we were caught with our pants down by my Mum who flipped.

After she calmed down (and my sister who is 9yrs older stopped laughing at me) we talked and established a rule that no subject was taboo to talk about in the home, but I was not to try things out with other people as I may upset someone, or be hurt myself. This allowed me to find things out in a safe way, and helped establish a strong open relationship with my mother which continued all through my teens, my first sexual relationships (I asked her for advice on contraception when I was 16) and on to the present day.

I also remember a boy at school (age about 6) who used to throw our pencils under the table, then flash at you when you went to pick them up - all the girls got fed up with this and made a plan - next time he did it we stood up & laughed at him - he stopped doing this.
I'm certainly not advocating public humiliation, but I think this boy was just after a reaction - some attention - the attention he got was not what he was after, it took away all his power and control over the situation.

I'm not sure how an adult may utilise this with a child without causing too much trauma, but there may be something - a quick mooney perhaps (your bum must have lost all interest to him now) - that can diffuse the tension around the situation, make it all look silly and, hand in hand with talking, turn the thing around?

I can only imagine how this suggestion/accusation of abuse must effect how you/his father are with your boy, (suggesting an mooney may seam totally inappropriate because of this) but you must not let unjustified guilt prevent you aiding your son to explore in an appropriate manner what he needs to find out.

Good luck with the appointment in September, we'll be thinking of you all.

[ionesmum]

I don't think that anyone has said that no action should be taken against this little boy & his behaviour nipped in the bud. What concerns me is that the school seem intent on finding a child abuse angle to it. What happens if the other parents get to hear of the school's accusations? They might decide to ban their kids from visiting or react in a hostile way at the school gate. Increasingly, when it comes to child abuse you are guilty until proven innocent, and that is why I said about getting legal advice.

Sapphire, I really don't want to worry you with my views (I am sure that your ds will be fine) but the school need to know that they can't get away with making accusations of this sort.

[Jendy]

Jaytree sorry if I upset you indirectly with my remark. I know not all profs are like that and perhaps could have phrased what I said in a less contentious way. I did say many but not how many, perhaps I should have said a few.

I probably felt a bit mouthy and I'm not making excuses but someone I know had gone through a horrendous battle with school and social services, where the children were only allowed to see one of their parents when supervised. It's over now but they were more than shaken by the way they were treated and are now anxious about everything they do. Despite no evidence coming to light they've been given no apology and feel they've been blackmarked by those in the know. They also felt they received very little support from services and didn't know who to turn to. I know and do agree that the well being of the children are paramount and that most times the people involved do the best job they can. But in this family's case it appears to have been blow up out of proportion which has left the children anxious and the parents angry and anxious.

However once again I am sorry if my unguarded remark offended you.

[SueW]

Someone mentioned about viewing records - actually it's very difficult. As a parent you don't automatically have the right under the Data Protection Act to see your children's records and there is no minimum age for consent.

This is taken from the website of the Campaign for Freedom of Information :

Parents and children
The Act has no minimum age requirement for applicants. Children can apply for their own records provided they are capable of understanding the nature of the request. A parent or guardian can only apply on the child's behalf if (a) the child has given consent or (b) the child is too young to have the understanding to make an application. A parent concerned about a small child's health probably would be able to see the medical record. But a parent wishing to defend him or herself against allegations of child abuse, or looking for evidence to support a custody claim, probably would not.

[sapphire]

Thanks again for all your support and comments. We had the appointment with a paediatrician/psychologist who feels that the sexual behaviour, coupled with the fact that DS is very impulsive and is prone to aggression and tantrums, could be indications of some form of attention deficit disorder. Thankfully he was satisfied that there were no signs of abuse. We've got to go back in November; the clinic are going to work with the school and monitor his behaviour over the next few weeks, and we'll see what happens then.

I had a meeting this morning with the head teacher and deputy, and someone from the Behaviour Support Services. Once again it was implied that this was my problem, my fault, and we seem to be working in different directions - I want to find the cause for the behaviour, which will hopefully help with dealiing with it; the school are all for stopping the symptoms but don't seem in the least bothered as to why its happening.

Anyway, DS started his first day in Reception today, i'm picking him up in about half an hour - fingers crossed he's had a good day.

[robinw]

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