11 year old DD having violent and aggressive outbursts

[QueenExhausted]

I'm writing this as my lovely daughter is throwing her stuff around her bedroom, screaming "I HATE YOU", calling me an idiot, and banging as loudly as she can. She has banged doors within the house so hard cracks have appeared in the ceiling. I have previously had to restrain her after she threw a chair at me, kicked, punched and screamed in my face.

This behaviour has gone on for as long as I can remember - my mum repeatedly tells me she's just a child and this is normal. I don't think it is.

One episode saw her writing me hate-filled notes that state she wishes I was dead and that she wanted to murder me. She was 6. She had such an epic episode at that point I had to remove everything from her bedroom except a mattress. I lay on the grass in my garden and sobbed whilst she raged inside. When she's like this, no amount of compassion or love or calming down works - she just has to rage through, which is the most upsetting thing of all.

She has typical tendencies for her age - the flouncing, the eye rolling, the cheek, but then they extend further than that and small triggers see her flying off the handle. This morning was because the Xbox had turned off (everything in the house turned off temporarily). She was allowed on the Xbox as a reward for good behaviour....

She is from a happy and stable family. She has a social life and friends and to an outsider, she appears to be well adjusted and kind and caring and sweet. I mean, she is. It's just she has this other side where anything I say or ask or tell her to do results in breakdowns like this.

I have tried everything. Love bombing, time outs, rewards, I even tried smacking only that made me feel like I'd lost control. She faces consequences for bad behaviour and rewards for good behaviour. I love her but I do not like her at times and that seems like a huge parenting failure. I know that her behaviour is a reflection of me - I just don't know how to stop it.

Just to add, I have repeatedly sought help - from her teachers, the school, her childminder who was a social worker, different GPs, online research - and had varying results. The school said they were surprised and would never have attributed such behaviour to her, the childminder gave me advice but told me to go through GP, different GPs have said it's normal or that I have to go through the school, the school are so overwhelmed with everything else, nothing's happened there. My mum is in denial and refuses to believe any of her outbursts are that bad - our neighbours must HATE us - 3am sessions of screaming and shouting and banging and crashing are wearing pretty thin.

What more can I do? Please, someone, anyone, is this just hormones or can I do something to help her?

[Goldmandra]

I've just seen this thread for the first time.

It's clear that your DD needs a neurodevelopmental assessment. They do not need to be mentally ill for this. Get your GP to find out who carries out this assessment in your area and request a referral.

In the meantime, I found that DD2 (ASD, PDA & anxiety) reacted very well to this book. Much fewer rooms have been trashed since.

Ignore the criticism of your parenting. She is able to lose it with you precisely because she feels secure in her relationship with you. She knows your love is unconditional and she can allow herself to express her emotions openly around you.

How is she getting on at her new school? It is really common for girls on the autism spectrum to be model pupils in school but find it overwhelming and stressful so lose the plot as soon as they get home.

[QueenExhausted]

Hi @Don35 sorry to hear you're going through this, I really sympathise.

Things are still the same - or they're consistently bad.

DD slapped me a few weeks ago, she regularly attacks me and is currently living in a bedroom that resembles a bin after she trashed it and ripped everything up.

I contacted the GP and the school's SENCO, who have been helpful. Family members don't get it - they don't see it and they think it's down to bad parenting - it's not.

I'd advise contacting your GP and your daughter's school and asking if there's anything they can do.

Unfortunately, no behaviour strategies seem to work except not engaging and no demands placed upon her, which feels very unnatural and makes me really unhappy as she basically gets away with everything to avoid a meltdown.

I struggle massively in my relationship with her because she has no empathy and is so violent, but she's my daughter and I have to endure that we get answers.

Good luck. Feel free to message me.

[Don35]

Hi.. I know this is a rather old post, but I was wondering the outcome as I am in exactly the same situation.

My ex husband and I split up years ago and my 11 year old daughter seems him on weekends. He doesn't see an issue with her, it's all directed at me. I've recieved abuse from him and his family, who think I'm making it all up. So I videoed her and told them I'd play it to them and they didn't want to know. They said I was a bad mother for tapping her. I feel like I am on my own. She is so violent with me and doesn't show it to anyone else. She is a model student getting brilliant results in tests and completely different at home. If she is naughty I ban her from things and that's when the outbursts start. She lies a lot and has lied to teachers, who because she is so nice at school have believed her. I've fallen out with family members because of it. I just don't know what to do or where to turn. If I take something off her for being naughty. Such as leaving used food items around her room, when she goes to her dad's he had months me and says I shouldn't have banned her. I feel like I'm loosing the plot.

[WombOfOnesOwn]

Your DP left and now she isn't having meltdowns?

You might want to talk to her sometime soon about her relationship to DP. That sounds ... odd. And like it's possible he was somehow contributing.

[guggenheim]

Queenexhausted, my Ds had Asd and ADHD. His asd has a 'pda' profile, I very much recognise what you are going through and just want to send you a hug.

Ds kicked off at school rather than at home so CAMHs etc couldn't ignore us. I'm sorry to read how fecking useless services have been for you. Keep going, you just have to keep in fighting for everything. Eventually you get onto the system.

Have you posted on SN? Loads of brilliant advice to be had there.

Ds began to improve after having medication for ADHD and we use a combination of pda strategies + just our own make it up stuff.

I really hope that things improve for you,best wishes.

[QueenExhausted]

I just want to say a huge thank you to everyone who's messaged me and replied on this thread - it really does help to know that I'm not alone, that this isn't normal, and that we do need some support.

My DP has moved out and back to his mum's - but strangely enough, DD hasn't had any meltdowns since - unfortunately, I think this is because I've spent the last week in such a haze, she's been able to do as she pleases and has been out with her friends all the time with no demands being made of her whatsoever - sounds ideal but we obviously can't function like this for much longer. I just wish that things had been a little smoother before this huge life changing decision but that's life I guess.

I am struggling with the fact that we have such a huge gap between us - I don't know how to relate to her anymore, especially after we've had such a TOUGH summer and so many meltdowns. We managed to get out on Sunday to an event I thought she'd love - but instead, she had a minor (in comparison) tantrum over something that I just ignored (much to the horror of everyone around us).

DD is currently playing with the toddler and the scene seems very lovely but I have to keep biting my tongue at the way she bulldozes through and doesn't actually let the younger one do anything.

It's hard. I send all my best wishes and positive thoughts to anyone and everyone going through this.

All suggestions and recommendations are also much appreciated - some I've used and have and some I haven't heard of - I'll go through them all again in the hope there's something I've missed.

[Lavayou]

I've been reading your thread with interest as my daughter is 6 and very similar. I've recently ordered and started reading 'The Explosive Child' and researched ASD, Asperger's and PDA. My daughter's behaviour at school is very good (although she is very quiet in class) and she behaves well for most people except me and to a lesser degree her Dad. I get the full brunt of outbursts and tantrums (but I'm also the one she comes to primarily when she needs cuddles, reassurance and love). As her mum I am going to get the best and worst of her behaviour. Bad behaviour includes spitting, hitting, scratching, name calling, shut up's, I hate you's, touching me inappropriately. She wants to be in control, has a very strong mind of her own and has always preferred making up her own games, choosing her own activities rather than following conventions or rules. She also find competitive games or sports really challenging (a fear of losing) - and ever a simple game such as kicking a ball, or throwing/catching will end in tears.
I just wanted to share some things that I feel 'work'. I think every parent has their own parenting style - and these things work for me - but I also think others wouldn't agree with what I do - but that's fair enough. I've got my ideas from listening to others and adapting it to what works for me.

• I read somewhere that when children struggle with reading, they are given extra support and progress isn't instant. It gradually improves with lots of setbacks and challenges along the way. Similarly, my daughter struggles with her emotions - there will be no magic solution, but a gradual improvement with lots of additional support.
  

-I feel I DO need to be authoritative. She is not an adult and while I recognise she has this need for control and to make her own decisions, it is important that she respects and listens to me. And this is the hard bit - she wants to dominate me and be in control.
-your daughter does not have the right to hit you. It IS abusive, especially as you are pregnant. My daughter hits me too/or will try and touch me inappropriately. When my daughter hits, I have explained to her that if this continues as she gets older the consequences of what the police would say and do about it. My daughter absolutely needs to get this under control - and I have warned her that I would tell someone in authority (headteacher/even the police) if she continues. So far - time out or reflection time seems to work (for 6 minutes) and I insist that she apologises before she continues her activities. If she doesn't then she gets another 6 minutes, and another until a real apology is given.

• to reward positive behaviour we have a system which is almost like Tesco clubcard points - which was recommended to me by a friend. It works really well. We have agreed a list of how to earn buttons based on what she finds challenging - e.g.turning off the TV when asked is worth 1 button, trying a new type of food is 2 buttons. We have 11 different ways to earn buttons - and at the end of each day we work out how many buttons she has earned and put then in a jar. Buttons are never taken out of the jar for bad behaviour - this purely focuses on good behaviour. If she gets 10 buttons, she can exchange for playing 30 minutes of Minecraft, 20 buttons is a small toy, 30 buttons is a large toy.
  
• for me my daughter's behaviour IS really challenging. It is HARD, HARD work - but I truly believe that if I get her to channel it all the right way - she will do truly amazing things when she is older. I LOVE her, I love her so much - she is an absolute miracle. I try not to compare her to other children because she is unique (not 'normal' - what ever normal is..) - just as I am unique and my way to parent is MY way and I need to feel strong and confident.
  
• I tell my daughter every day that I love her, and give her as many cuddles as I can. I also do a little list of all the new things she has done every day and things that she should be very proud of. I find this little refection time with buttons and things to be proud of very useful.
  

Very best wishes - you sound very intelligent and I really feel for you. I bet your daughter is very smart and absolutely amazing xxxxxx

[RuthRed]

Oh God, I feel for you so much and know exactly what you mean about not wanting to be her mum. I feel the same and then feel guilty about thinking it. There is so much pressure to 'adore' motherhood. Not so easy to adore when ones little angel is acting like a complete pyscho towards you! I am really sad for you and equally distraught for my own situation that you seem to have got little support and it looks like CAHMs are in a terrible state and not able to help the people that really need it. I wish I could provide some comfort to you but I can't as I know too well how soul destroying it is. All I can say is to keep talking about it. Maybe together we can find a solution. Love and solidarity to you. X

[QueenExhausted]

@RuthRed I'm so sorry to hear you're in a similar position. Basically, it's bloody shit, isn't it?

I HATE being her mum and I feel awful for even thinking like that, but it's true. She is absolutely awful to me and I find it really hard to think that this child is in control of my life in such a negative and violent way.

It's definitely like being in an abusive relationship - no, it IS being in an abusive relationship only there's no support and it's completely taboo.

Currently sat downstairs whilst DD has a major meltdown upstairs. She's thrown god knows what at the walls, she's screaming, kicking, smashing - do I know what the trigger is? Not really no. She's been aggressive in public today, which usually indicates we're in for a few shit days.

I've actually uploaded a snippet of the meltdown in the hope that someone can advise me how I can cope with this because right now I feel like I don't know how to go on.

vimeo.com/229389330

So, in essence, I don't have a happy ending - I am waiting for her new school's SENCO to get in touch and we'll take it from there. Still very tempted to contact social services for some support but I don't know if that's a good idea or not.

[RuthRed]

Hey,
I came on here to post a very similar post OP as I am at my wits end.
Then I saw your post and you could be talking about my daughter.
Only difference is that she is 6 (quite big and mature in other respects) but same thing. Perfect with other most children/adults. Model student at school 'a joy to teach' apparently and then she comes home and its like she turns into the child from the Exorcist. Screaming, hitting, kicking, spitting, saying the nastiest things she can to me. The other day she was so aggressive that I shut the door between me and her, Only she was in the kitchen and after screaming at the door for a few minutes she said 'Right, Im going to get the knives and throw them at the door!' at which point I intervened and had to restrain her on the floor. Today she threw her scooter at my back (now bruised) and scratched my chest viciously. Once she has calmed down it is all I love you mummy, Im so sorry, I dont know why I get like this....its like being with an abusive husband who repeatedly beats his wife, tears her down mentally then says sorry, I didnt mean it. She aims it all at me or her brother who is a year and a half younger than her. He sometimes tries to copy her behaviour but he is much more 'normal' in how he reacts to things and never nasty. She never does it to her dad, not directly. She kicks off in front of him but its not aimed at him.
Took her to the GP last week, he said we need to go to Family Support, so I am going to the parent support drop in on monday (to see if I can get referred on to the enormous frigging waiting list)
I see this thread is a few months old now so please let me know what happened and where you got with it as I am in a similarly horrible position...:-(

[QueenExhausted]

Quick update: spoke to GP this morning and he said that he had tried to jumpstart the process through a direct referral but that it didn't work so I need to go through the new school's SENCO and they will manage the referral process.

He said that the way the system is now set up there's not much he can do but sympathised.

I don't know how I feel about it.

DD is ruling the roost here - doing a great job of being perfect around others but horrific the rest of the time.

OH and I are on the verge of splitting up - not sure there's anything to save. He can't cope with her behaviour and doesn't understand. I just feel exhausted and so bloody alone.

[QueenExhausted]

Sorry for no replies, things are pretty bloody awful at the moment. She's now hitting me every day, she's damaged so much stuff, screaming, shouting, slamming.

I've tried everything - calm, consequences, and cuddles when she's calm but quite honestly, I'm just drained and feel so resentful of her. We have done bugger all this holiday because of her behaviour - the nicest days have been when she's stayed at her nana's.

I'm finally seeing the GP on Friday - I'm hoping he'll agree that we need further support. Otherwise I'll have to go down the route of trying to get something private - although I have no idea how we'll afford it. I spent yesterday afternoon and evening in my room with the toddler, her playing and me trying not to cry too loudly. The day before I sat and cried and cried.

She's so aggressive now, I'm genuinely worried she'll do some damage to me or the baby.

I'm also looking at rehoming our lovely dog because this is so stressful for her, she's utterly miserable.

My OH and I aren't talking at all so he's no support. He sees one side of DD, a side she plays so well, so it's pretty bloody lonely.

I've never come close to hating my child before but god, this is such a horrible life at the moment.

I hope all of you are coping with the holidays

[Picklesandpies]

Op - just wondering seeing how you got on at the doctors the other day? I hope they listened to you and understood your difficulties. We have had a rather testing morning here...throat a bit sore from shouting. Heaven knows what my neighbours must think. I really tried not to be the mimicking just sent me over the edge

[Notinyournelly]

Sorry to hear that.
Make sure you go tomorrow, I only say that because it took me so long to push forward.
The next day when things had calmed down I often managed to convince myself that everything was ok.
Good luck

[Picklesandpies]

Hi OP.

That sounds truly terrible. I am shattered myself so I can't write much right now but I am thinking of you and sending you positive vibes. Completely unhelpful but you are not alone. I know how you feel (and the humiliation/guilt/anger/sadness that goes with it.)

I hope you manage a decent night's sleep so you can tackle tomorrow. I think it's absolutely right you see the GP. I hope they take you seriously.

X

[QueenExhausted]

Sorry for radio silence. Things are pretty shit here.

I'm fed up of living like this. I am fed up of making excuses for her shitty behaviour and attitude and being attacked and having her get away with so much unacceptable behaviour in case it triggers a meltdown.

She's stealing, lying, aggressive, mean. I'm sick of it. Sick of running around after her whilst she does what she wants when she wants and says what she wants, regardless of how hurtful.

The whole neighbourhood has just heard an outburst of her screaming how much she hates me and wants to kill me and wishes I were dead and she wants to murder me. All because she wouldn't put a sleeping bag away that she had just told me she'd done.

We've had door slamming and she's repeatedly hit me, thrown stuff around her room and generally been a little shit. I feel I'm at the point where I don't care what's wrong with her - I'm just sick of it. This wasn't what I signed up for - to be bullied and abused and gave to put up with this every day - it's worse than an abusive relationship because there's fuck all support and you can't walk away. You just have to take it on the chin and know it won't get better.

I'm going to ring the GP back tomorrow and say that we either get a referral one way or another or I'm contacting social services because I am done with this.

[Notinyournelly]

A group like a WhatsApp group would be good for people like us so when we are going through it we can share or get support.
What do others think or do you know any support groups?

[Picklesandpies]

This thread has been so helpful for me. I was feeling so alone with it all and now I realise there are people going through exactly the same thing and there is a name for it - I am absolutely convinced that our DD has PDA. It was an absolute revelation reading about it and how I could identify with the characteristics.

OP I'm sorry you haven't been able to get an appointment with CHAMS. I am also wondering if we should go private if we have no luck.

We have meeting with SENCO and head next term so we will see what that brings.

[Notinyournelly]

My son is 10. And we've been to chams but they said it's not a mental health problem.
We are on the waiting list for an ASD assessment.
Reading these posts really help me realise I'm not the only one.
It feels like I'm living a nightmare at times.
I don't have any breaks from my son. I'm almost dreading the school holidays.

[swimbikerun123]

This all sounds very familiar. You could be writing about my DD.
DD now has a diagnosis of ADHD (read up on that, it presents very differently in girls), ASD, PDA and general anxiety.
We waited years for CAHMS, so gave up and went private. It has been worth every penny....we borrowed and used savings to see the paediatrician. Life has improved, we know how to deal with DD, we know the triggers...but more importantly, we all have an explanation.
Good luck.

[QueenExhausted]

Update:

Had a reply from CAMHS - basically due to 'pressures on the system' and not enough funding in the area, they are only taking on mental health cases and because she is not in that severe in need of help category, they can't take her case on as it's behavioural rather than mental health and I have to go through school if I want to Perdue this. And there's two weeks left before she breaks up for high school... FFS

Where do I go next? High school? Primary? Back to GP?

[QueenExhausted]

Just wanted to send lots of hugs @CLAIREneedhelp - I've PM'd you.

Things here are up and down - finally seen the GP who has written to CAMHS regarding a consultation and a referral for therapy (?). GP stated that he didn't think it was ASD as she was different at school and home but he admitted this wasn't his area of expertise and I already know that PDA traits can include masking.

GP was really lovely and horrified by the few things I went through with him - he really listened and didn't rush me and made lots of notes so it felt like I had someone on side.

Relationship between my parents and I have deteriorated since my last posting - possibly off the back of this. They have blocked us all out and not seen DC since. Obviously, there is other stuff going on but support for getting help has surprisingly come from MIL and SIL who have been really lovely and supportive - no judging (or at least not undermining me or judging to my face, which I appreciate).

Things have been very up and down - DD is still very aggressive and I've had to bear hug restrain her a few times after she's been uncontrollably violent - yesterday she elbowed me in the stomach in fury - she has no realisation of risk or consequence with me being pregnant and didn't care she could have hurt me or the baby.

However, we are taking every day one at a time and really, really trying to be patient and give her space when needed and love despite it sometimes being difficult to want to be around her.

[CLAIREneedhelp]

My son is the same he just gone 10 he had really bad anger tonight from 7ish til about half an hour ago i just broke down in tears feel like what ever i try to do nothing working even his sister broke down crying earlyer. We had this for years and asked school and doctors for help but no 1 listening and now it worse he hit me lots times tonight and throw ball at my face hit item off me just dont knw what to do.

[QueenExhausted]

@mollyblack how did you find out about the parenting course? I will literally do anything.

DD has been home since Thursday and it's been hard. I have been really trying to pick battles, avoid any demands upon her, and be a whole lot more kind and gentle with her during outbursts, but god, it's hard.

Her going to GPs has caused a few more issues - there's an issue with them being extremely overbearing and forgetting who the parents are. She said she found it really hard there and doesn't like how they undermine me - but that just meant that there was lots of emotion when she got back. I have to address a few things there as they've been discussing my poor parenting to all and sundry, which is the last thing I need.

Hopefully, there'll be a light at the end of the tunnel at some point, soon!!

Thank you so much to everyone who's commented - in RL no one seems to understand.

[mollyblack]

Dh and I struggled too but after i did a parenting course and felt more confident something wad "wrong" he has got on board. Plus he can see results from this new way of doing things- he used to get angry with dh but is a lot more understanding now.

Good you are getting a break and your dd is happy with the gps for now hope you can take it easy!