Do some children never point?

[Runningbutnotscared]

I have a wonderful, happy, easy going 17 month old ds. I am very very lucky. He is great fun, eats and sleeps well..... but, despite myself, I am spending a lot of time worrying about the milestones he got to late / is missing.

He was late to wave (really he just flaps; mostly while laughing; often with both hands - I interpret it as waving), clap and walk. He has no words, just babbles, but his hearing appears to be fine.

He has a love of hard objects and cannot be separated from a duster on a pole atm . Duster on pole can be replaced with blue sticky thing if necessary, or a knife (!), a thing else leads to a very noisy ds.

He does not point. Although as I spend time reading to him, we have worked on pointing at things in books. While He's quite good at that, I'm not sure that's enough?
He has never brought me anything to look at, although he is happy to bring me the toy he wants to play with (mostly when I'm trying to get on with something else).

Like loads of other parents here I am worried about ASD, so I wondered if perhaps there were some people who's dc never pointed and didnt end up with an ASD diagnosis?

[Runningbutnotscared]

.. ...also (sorry for the long post) he seems to have no sense of self. He can point to a noes In a book, or my nose, or his daddy's nose....or really anyone's except his own.

[MattDillonsPants]

Does he have shared interest in objects? Bringing things to show you or to start a game? Does he pretend...as in pretend to feed a bear from a toy cup?

[BarbarianMum]

The thing is, pointing is talked about because it's a good indicator of shared attention. When a child points it is showing you that they understand that you and they are separate beings (you don't necessarily know or see what they do) and they want to draw your attention to something that interests them. So teaching them to point at something (where's the dog, where's the ball) isn't the same thing at all.

To answer your question, ds1 rarely if every pointed as a toddler and is not autistic, nor did we ever worry that he might be. He didn't really wave much either but did share attention in other ways and did copy other things though. Ds2 did point but had a question-mark over him re: autism for several years. Age 8 I'm 99% sure he isn't on the autistic spectrum but has quite marked traits (his uncle has aspergers and there is a marked resemblance in certain respects).

I'm sorry you are worried about this - it's no fun, I know. Could I suggest you take a look at the MCHAT test on line? It's designed for 18 month olds (so your ds is still a little young) and works by you answering a load of questions about your child. At the end it gives you a score that indicates how much behaviour consistent with autism your child is showing (it is not diagnostic and everyone shows some level of the behaviors they look at ie no one gets a score of zero). So it won't give you an answer but may put your mind at rest or at least give you some grounds to take things further.

[Runningbutnotscared]

Thanks for your replies-
Yes, he does bring books and toys to be played with.l, but he has no pretend play at all.

I've completed the MCHAT test then spoken to both the HV and GP. Both HV and GP say he is too young to assess and we would need to wait for a year or two. I think they both think I'm over anxious rather than actually listening to me. I was hoping by posting on here that they would be proved right!

Google is not my friend, I have rarely found any reports of children not pointing that didn't lead to a diagnosis. so it's reassuring that you say your children aren't despite having some markers, thank you.

[NeedACleverNN]

Watching with interest..

I had Ds's development check a few months ago and she's coming again today because he is a bit behind in her eyes.

He doesn't like books apart from to chew them but she wasn't impressed that he won't point or turn pages in a book.

I can't remember Dd ever pointing though...

[MattDillonsPants]

I know my DD didn't wave OP...it came on quite late...I can't remember about pointing. If he is babbling, bringing you toys to show him or play with then that sounds good.

You can encourage imaginative play by setting up a "tea party" for his bears and showing him how to do it...if he likes it then he will initiate it himself.

Is he noise sensitive at all or is he ok with things like traffic etc?

[BarbarianMum]

OK then, my advice to you is as follows. Wait a couple of months then do the MCHAT again. If you are still worried then, go back to your GP (or go to another one) and tell them you would like a referral to a developmental paediatrician. By the time that comes through he'd be about 2 which is not too young for assessment (although it may not be conclusive). You do not want to be worrying for another 2 years if it can be avoided.

On a separate note, if you are trying to encourage imaginative play try all sorts to increase the chances of finding something he's interested in. Also note that being autistic does not equate (necessarily) with being unimaginative - you can be unimaginative and nt or autistic and imaginative. One thing to look out for as he grows up is whether he'll use things/toys in a way that they are not designed for eg pretend a corn on the cob is a phone, or that a box is a hat rather than always sticking to their intended purpose.

[NeedACleverNN]

So my health visitor has just been and we are getting another visit in a couple of months.

It's all because he is "in the black" on some of his chart.

She asked if I was worried which I replied I wasn't. She also offered for a nursery nurse to come out and do some activities with us to encourage him. I said no it's ok thank you.

It's because at 14 months he doesn't point or say words more than mama and dada. Or does a lot of fine motor skills.

[Moistly]

I cannot remember if dd pointed either actually
She didn't show a single bit of interest in holding a cup for herself til she was 1 though, which the HV told me was incredibly late

[Moistly]

...she also hated "tummy time" and completely missed out crawling.

I wouldn't worry quite yet Op, it's nothing I'd have noticed (and didnt)

[coffeemachine]

OP, I know a few kids in the UK who have been diagnosed with ASD before 2 and a fair few who got a dx between 2 and 3.

HV and GP are fobbing you off. I would insist on a referral to a developmental paed and take things from there. Assessing or ruling out ASD it not the remit if the GP/HVand they should tell you to go away and come back in a year. Just nag them. Can you take your DP or someone else along to see the GP? did the trick for me (wasn't simply a case of paranoid mum syndrome anymore) but I had to go back about 4-5 times until they referred us (got a dx if severe ASD in the end so my gut instinct was right).

be persistent, be a pain.

[wyatt2154]

Hello!! I’m curious did your son ever get diagnosed with ASD? This sounds just like my 20 month old right now.

[essexmum777]

my ds didn't point until 2.4, no words until 3 - he was speech & language and social communication delayed but not asd.

[wyatt2154]

Thank you so much!! I have had so much anxiety over all of this. Everyone says they don’t see ASD even his doctor. But I can’t stop seeing it. But this made me feel so much better.

[essexmum777]

There is more than one reason why speech & language might be delayed, dr google always seems to bring up autism though - and 20 months isn't so late :-)

[Springmama]

Can anyone update on this thread please? @Runningbutnotscared @wyatt2154 did your DC start pointing by now? My DS is 26 months old& points only occasionally to body parts& when e.g naming colours on things or counting but almost never as to show something interesting & he had never done it to request something, it feels like he does not see a purpose in pointing. What other users wrote in this tread in the past it all also sounds to me very reassuring that lack of pointing may be not a sole indicator of asd but it's always at the back of my head &makes me very worried about my DS. many thanks

[wyatt2154]

Hey!! So my son is now 30 months. He did start pointing around 22 months. First it was outside then to show what he wanted. But I did start asking him more the show me and tell me. I also started modeling it more. He now has about 100 words. He has just started to put words together. Sometimes. I still have my days when I worry. But I did get my own anxiety treated to. I do believe he has some sensory stuff. Not terrible, he no longer flaps his hands but now when he his watching a tv show he will jump sometimes. He is receiving speech therapy once a week (most of the time). I know what you are going through. I still have my moments. I had so many anxiety attacks. I hope this helps some.

[Springmama]

Hi& many thanks for your reply @wyatt2154 it is very helpfull, also it is great to know that your son did pick up on pointing& is doing well& I do hope that he will overcome other possible issues. I may have to finally get help with my anxiety too as having so many days when I just feel overwhelmed, constantly worried& so down I just keep crying is also affectinng my family ( my DD who is 9 is clearly noticing it) I must add to the story that my DS also has now a speech delay which is caused by around 7 months of not hearing properly most likely due to glue ear( which he was diagnosed with back in January but he was not consistently responding to his name around October last year, all clear for about a month now) but it can be also possible that he has asd& has had the glue ear ( other traits are flapping hands when excited, opening& closing doors& getting obsessed by things e. g recently he keeps taking rice& pasta out of cupboards& giving them to me to refill his sensory play tray which is full of it but these obsessions don't last long so not sure if that counts?). Thank you for the tips how you did help your DS with pointing, it is very much appreciated. Over here questions to emphasise pointing can be tricky but I just started to model pointing( & saying 'look') to show something interesting so hopefully he will pick it up. We are seeing a private SALT for the initial assessment soon, we were on a long waiting list as apparently many toddlers are speech delayed these days due to lockdowns which could contribute to my DS' speech delay too) so I do hope my DS will respond well to therapy. How quickly was your DS progressing with SALT? I was told not to expect much straight away. So sorry for a super long post, I am so glad you replied& said that you know what I am going through, it means a lot!

[wyatt2154]

No problem. I totally understand and sympathize with you. I have a 11 year old daughter and she definitely knew about all my anxiety. I felt so bad. And I was driving my husband crazy. I would also use books to help point too. When I knew he wanted juice I would hold his finger and say juice. Lol I remember last fall I used my pointer finger so much. Lol. My son also flaped his hands but he quite that around 25 months. Now he jumps when excited. Well his speech therapy is all over zoom so he is not getting much from that. I would say it’s more me hearing what they are doing and trying to put that into our lives. But he has come so far. Even my father in law said the other day remember when you were worried about him talking, now he won’t stop. Lol. He is still not where he should be. Today he started lining up toilet paper rolls and I started freaking out. But then he took his car and pushed it into them. How does your son play with your daughter? Sorry I feel like this is all over the place.

[Springmama]

My DS does the same, lines up cars then pushes a truck into them, he does the same with towers he likes building. It sometimes make me think too. My DD sometimes play with him at home but does more when we are out in our garden or out the house e.g parks( he usually follows her or drags her hand to play with him:) What about your DD? That is fantastic to hear that your DS made such a great progress during the past 10 months. Did his speech& understanding came naturally or did he have SALT ( via zoom) then done by you all the way through? I just bought Hanen It takes two to talk, aparently great for parents of kids with language delays, will see how it will work over here but every little helps. On a positive note I am actually starting wondering if my DS lack of pointing to show something interestig is because between 18-25 months he had an ongoing hearing loss to some level so as he couldn't talk & couldn't understand us then he was in his own world to some degree and maybe did not see the need of pointing? I did point a lot today and he repeated it a few times ( not that keen of me holding his finger and point) so maybe he needs time now to catch up? His understanding improved over the past month too.

[Springmama]

oh yes re both kids playing together he will run with her( he loves running) kick the ball or dance with her, sometimes they would build something together but not that often. He generally loves us being all together in the same room. He had this game at around 21 months which lasted for a while: we were all pretending to sleep(he would say 'sleep') then he would pull our hands to wake us up ( we would say 'good morning to him') then it was restarting all over again🙂we still sometimes play it. What about your son?

[BWgh]

Hi when did your son stop flapping his arms?

[FinnsMammy]

@essexmum777 this sounds like my little guy 27 months now how’s your little guy doing now? Thanks 🙏

[FinnsMammy]

@essexmum777 just wondering how your child is doing now. My child is 2.4 and still doesn’t point he walked ,clapped and waved late too! The reason I ask is I believe he is similar to your child as I believe he is language and communication and social delay but not autistic. I didn’t think he was autistic and his crèche teachers, public health nurse also said they didn’t think he was autistic. I had a developmental Paediatric appointment on Monday and the paediatrician wants to run his bloods for genetic testing to see if there’s a reason for his delay. The paediatrician never even mentioned ASD when I asked him if it could be that he just said oh know your child is not autistic. I’m just wondering when your little guy started talking as we still have no words here and no real idea of what’s going on? Thank you 🙏

[titatot87]

Hello, I know this is an old post but can you please update? How is your son doing.
?