5 year old ruining holiday with appalling behaviour

[Whatalife58]

My child is on a holiday with me (single mother) visiting family and friends he has never met before. We have travelled to another country. I am at a loss at how to manage him and quite frankly have felt like crying my eyes out. When he first met my brother and sister he said 'But you are elderly'. That was probably unintentional rudeness but it has been so hard. He interrupts and refuses to back down if someone says wait a minute. He argues with my sister in law who has been kind and firm with him. He got angry tonight and grabbed an expensive camera and tried to dismantle it. When I told him it was bedtime (he had a 5 minute warning) he threw a toy at the TV and shouted. I understand he is stressed and out of routine and have given him lots of hugs and reassurance. I am stressed too. I have no idea what he will do next. He is totally out of control. Today he ran away from me when we were at a wildlife centre which he like. He shouts I am hurting him when I hold his hand. What can I do?

[whotheduckisalice]

I sympathise. My DD (4) was soooo difficult on our holiday. It was exhausting. It was quite an adult holiday and I wondered if that had something to do with it. I have decided I am going to one of those campsites with entertainment and swimming pools etc next time as I think it is the only way I will get any sort of break!

[Hissy]

This isn't an overnight fix. Keep talking. Find out how rational the sadness is. If it's not, show him.

[Whatalife58]

Thanks Hissy I might have been a bit optimistic. Today he wasn't great. When he has calmed down I talk to him about how he feels and he says he feels so sad. Which is quite genuine. He cannot explain why. I find this upsetting too.
I think that he is doubly unsettled because we had to move house (totally unplanned) a few weeks before the holiday.
He is responding when I tell him off but I am trying to give him praise wirhin reason.

[Hissy]

Wow! Sounds like you may have shown him!

Fingers crossed!

I had to sit mine down and explain that if he wanted cuddles and kisses, he could have them whenever, but he absolutely didn't need to kick off to get them.

Encouraging him to talk aboit what he's feeling, getting him to draw wtc, that may give him the expression he needs?

He's 5, right? So Year R? Going to Yr1?

Maybe the 'dad' thing, they start to notice family structures, and some bugger cherub will say something that un-nerves them. They don't know what to do/say about it, so internalise it and regress somehow.

Tell him how proud you are of his behaviour today, ask him to think about how being 'good' makes him and everyone feel. Get him to be more aware of how he influences the world around him, and how the world affects him.

You sound as if you're doing well today! Well done! :)

[LastingLight]

That great Whatalife. Hope it continues.

[Whatalife58]

OMG my son was pretty much ok for the whole day - calmer, nicer and smiling.

[Whatalife58]

Yes he cries and needs lots of cuddles after the meltdown. I understand it is a bit of a battle of wills and am very much aware of the need to get on top of discipline and boundaries now. That is what is causing me the most anxiety. Today he has (at times been his regular self) I have removed him once from a social event. He had a major tantrum but I am going to remindhim that the same thing will happen again if he answers back argues or is rude.

[Hissy]

Sorry, I meant different not difficult :)

[Hissy]

I think because he knows you won't/can't remove him completely, and that you'll be mortified so more vulnerable is possibly the reason why he ramps it up.

I get the not getting him away, but a shock tactic of leaving the meal/event once and apologising for his behaviour might just show him that you will follow through.
I think he sees the chink in your armour and is using it to the max.

You can be consistent and carry through your threats longer than he can.

He's old enough to understand, albeit too young to be emotionally able to communicate his issues, but that's no excuse to ruin your holiday or that of your family.

Battle of wills, perhaps, but one you have no option than to win. In a few years time, when he's well practised in this stuff, you won't have a prayer of pulling him back around.

I don't envy you, I really hope you can get through to him. It's a miserable situation for you and for him.

When he's calmed himself, does he cry and seek reassurance?

Mine used to kick off a bit (only with mw though, so difficult tbh) and once i'd got angry with him he'd cry and it'd turn out he needed cuddles/affection.

He'd play up if there were others to compete with.

I told him that if he wanted attention or cuddles to talk to me, but not blow up to get them. Eventually it worked...

5 is shit. It passes though!

[Whatalife58]

Thanks Hissy. I have at the onset talked sternly to my son. I have removed him from the most serious incidents. This has resulted in full on meltdowns with screaming and shouting and him running away from me. Once as a family group sat down for supper always at public family get togethers. I haven't been with my family for years so am reluctant to miss these situations (not the meltdown) and it isn't as easy as just removing my son. Clearly if this happened at home or at a friend's in rhe UK I would act accordingly.

[Hissy]

Sounds like he's competing for your attention. And doing it in the worst way possible.

I think you need to take him to one side away from everyone and say that this is your holiday too, and that his being rude to your family is unacceptable and wrong. That there won't be any more holidays if he continues to behave like this. He is responsible for his behaviour and being tired, out of routine is one thing, arguing back, biting and insulting people is NOT the son you raised him to be.

Take him out on your own today/tomorrow, by the sounds of it your friends will welcome the break. Talk to him. Be clear. If he's rude to them in any way shape or form he goes on the step, or straight up to bed.

Use the time alone with him to explain this VERY clearly.

Then if he plays up act without fuss or drama and simply remove him from the situation and remind him that this was what was agreed.

If you can't get a hold on this now, it won't get any easier and he'll make it so that you'll be isolated from friends and family. Which ultimately will make him suffer as a result of reduced interaction.

[Whatalife58]

Today we had the day together. It was ok but my son is throwing tantrums, argueing and being very tearful. Then he is all sort of revved up and hyper in a babyish sort of way. When he is like this it is very difficult to engage him or to get him to listen. I do find this concerning.Tomorrow we will have a quiet day and hopefully we can both just "let go". I think that is what needs to happen.

[greeneggsandjam]

How is his behaviour at school/how was it when he first started?

[MexicanSpringtime]

Yeap. My PFB had terrible tantrums when she was two and I had always been very judgemental when I saw a toddler having a tantrum and it seemed like everyone around was saying that their children had never had tantrums it was a really stressful time.

But it was only when a friend said oh she's just like my boy was that I calmed down about it all and soon afterwards the tantrums ended. So the best thing is to stop thinking about other people think. Their own children have also at times been appalling, no matter how much they may have "forgotten".

[booglywoogler]

I'm so glad that things are a bit better today. Good luck. I know what you mean about how "trying" to relax is a bit counterproductive! The best I can suggest is , or and reminding yourself that if you aren't a perfect parent you are definately not alone...

[Whatalife58]

Thanks Booglewoogler. You know what I love my son and yes I am doing my best but it.isn't always perfect. We now have a few days alone at my siblings holiday house. I am finding it hard to relax because I have been so concerned about how I could handle these outbursts.But today at least I have hsd the opportunity to appreciate the fact that for a good part of the day my son has been fine. I take his bad behaviour to be a reflection on me but the circumstances are a factor
too.When I calm down so will my son and the past few

weeks have been a vicious circle. If I can relax a bit and
take things a bit more lightly I think there will be am
improvement. The thing is I cannot exactly will myself to relax

[booglywoogler]

Just to say that I know its really hard when your little one is naughty in new places and with other people. My dd is 5 and I think really hates change, so she was really difficult on our recent holiday. I don't know about you, but I often get stressed out worrying what other people will think, or thinking "OMG, if this is happening today, what will happen tommorrow/next week/next year..." I then get really stressed and this makes me more controlling and snappy, which obviously makes dd worse...I found it helps to mentally "let go" of what others will think or catastrophising about the future ("i'm just doing my best"/"there's no point stressing about this now"etc).
Also I think all the advice about lots of child-centred him and you time is really good. You are probably both really tired and stressed with all the moving around and changes of scene, so go easy on both of you!

[MrsJamin]

He could easily be having a testosterone surge- very typical at that age, so as able to curtail aggression and surliness as you may be able to stop being touchy when you have PMT. He needs boundaries firmed up and lots of time to run off the excess energy. We are having tricky times with DSs 4 & 6 and I think this has a lot to do with it.

[sezamcgregor]

Don't worry about it!

It's happened, tomorrow is a new day.

I would try to spend some time on my own with DS, take him for a walk/to the playground and let him have some space to run and be unrestrained.

It will probably just be too much stimulation and he's probably tired after travelling and does not know how to express his feelings. He also seems to be pushing boundaries ie will she shout at me in her friends' house? Will she get as cross? Will she let me get away with it?

Explain to your friends when he is asleep about his behaviour and that he's just excited - and you're so pleased to see them.

If it is better, cook him something quick and easy, feed him and put him to bed before you have your evening meal rather than fighting with him at meal time.

[Whatalife58]

Yes I do want my son to make a good impression but realistically I have very little control over it. He is so extraverted and vocal that it isn't possible and really I wouldn't want it to be otherwise.

[MexicanSpringtime]

Yes, and try to de-stress.

It is very stressful when you want your child to make a good impression and they are doing anything but, however he will be picking up on your stress and that is only going to make the situation worse.

You know how lovely he is capable of being and your relatives probably know too that children go through difficult phases.

[Whatalife58]

We are having a quieter time over the next week so will focus on good behaviour and simple activities. He bite me last night when he was refused a second helping of pudding so things can only improve.

[antimatter]

I think change in diet may have some impact?
Are they giving him sweets or treats he isn't used to?

I think at that age kids get very overloaded emotionally. You are talking to other people where he is used to have your uninterrupted attention.

Maybe have 1-2 days with very little interaction with others and just let him calm down in his own time.

[Northernlurker]

I think an (easy) reward chart could help too. It sounds pretty overwhelming for him so he's taking the easy option of being a pita. Incentivise him to be his usual delightful self.

[Athrawes]

We just returned from a 6 week holiday with 4 yo DS visiting family and friends rarely seen.
Try and make a BIG chunk of each day child friendly. Not all bells and whistles and fun parks, just basics like staying home and playing. Maybe the cousins and relatives could help him build some Lego or bake cookies?
Lots of people find holidays stressful, with new faces and foods, so he is just expressing this.
At 5 maybe he could earn points every day towards a treat at the end of the day - try the pebbles in the jar technique, one in for every good (however minor) thing he does and one out for everytime he calls someone a rude name or kicks off.