4 year old has started school and is out of control!HELP :(

[roxynixon23]

Hi, so my 4 year old has recently started school and he's been awful to other kids and the teacher,today for instance he has hit 3 children,stangled another and screamed at the teacher "i hate you,you are stupid". he lashes out, he screams and cries even if he is askrd to do something simple like sit on the carpet. the teacher puts him in the time are corner when he does these things, he was all so like this at preschool and at home. I've tried the naughty step,taking things away,behavoiur charts and loads more things but nothing is working, its like he knows its wrong but it seems like he cant help his self.i am at rock bottom :( i spoken to my hv and our local childrens centre who are coming out to see me soon.does anyone have any advice on why hes like the way he is,is he just a "naughty"boy or cud there be somthing else going on?? Please any advice will help me:) thankyou

[SecretSquirrels]

Don't underestimate how tiring school can be for a child. It sounds like the staff are all suggesting this is part of the problem.
When does he go to bed? Have you moved his bedtime forward since he started school in case tiredness is a factor?

[chocolatecrispies]

Could he not just be too young for school? In many countries he would be at nursery until he was 6 or 7, expectations are very different there...

[jellyrolly]

This will sound trivial but I tried my 'naughty' DS1 with omega 3 vitamins and he was much calmer after a short time. Only a small thing but everything helps, it just seemed to help him contain his rage.

It must be really distressing for you, I hope the school pull their finger out and help.

[madwomanintheattic]

I don't think half days are going to solve much, are they, except get him out of the teacher's hair. He has been like this for at least a year, and was the same at nursery, and is the same at home.

What do you imagine half days are going to magically achieve at this point?

I have to say I agree with star. You are playing right in their hands if you just roll over and keep him at home for half the day. Make sure you see your gp and ask for a developmental pediatrician referral, ask to see the senco and the 'behavior team' (who's that then?)

Do you think this is going to improve the situation? Was he doing half days at nursery?

[EBDTeacher]

I agree with the others on here. It sounds like the school are just looking for damage limitation measures which are not necessarily aimed at improving the situation for your DS. I don't buy the tiredness card, all children get tired at school, they don't all react like your DS.

There will be an underlying cause to his behaviour which must be found and addressed so he can access his education.

I would say he needs to be seen by both a developmental pead and an educational psychologist. Get the first appointment though your doctor and push the school to arrange the second appointment.

It will be the SENCo at school who can refer your DS for an Ed Psych assessment, if I were you I would tell her you want this done ASAP.

In the meantime the teacher needs to see the Behaviour Services team as she needs some support to get some decent strategies in place. She may not have dealt with challenging behaviour before but she is going to have to learn. Putting her hands up and saying she can't cope is not an option. I would ask very directly exactly what the school are doing about putting a plan into place to support your DS and his teacher.

I wouldn't bother with your hv/ children's centre worker. Go straight for the people who can actually make recommendations the school have to listen to (Dr and Psych).

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Was the nursery attached to this school?

[Northernlurkerisbackatwork]

I want sarahsal to teach my dd!

No advice OP except to keep taking deep breaths. You will get past this.

[roxynixon23]

I fully underdstand and agree with what you are saying and have said that he needs to be asessed but tbh i dont want my son there in the afternoons if it is doin more harm than good at the mo .i have been in contact with parent partnership and im waiting for a call back as school clearly dont no how to deal with this and tbh i dont.it frustrates me as the school should no how to deal with this! Preschool is linked to the school and i sed to the head that he should have been made aware of his behaviour before he started school and he agreed with me.preschool thort it was just a phase and so did i but its gone on way to long.he is really tired when he comes home, i think tiredness adds to the problem but is not the cause.he goes to bed at 7pm and is asleep by 7.10 and he had a good 12 hours sleep.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

roxin, please come over to the children SN boards. There is a lot of experience there.

I understand that you don't want him to attend in the afternoons if he isn't coping, but he'll never cope in the afternoons if this doesn't get addressed, and it WON'T get addressed until the school are uncomfortable enough to get on with addressing it.

The younger children are when they get into the system, the quicker it is. If you wait a couple of years then it gets an awful lot more complicated and the waits for help get longer.

None of this is the way it is supposed to be, but it IS the way it is. Help will not come until he is failing to the extent that it pisses off the teacher - this is really the bottom line.

[Silibilimili]

What sarah said.

[EdMcDunnough]

I do't want to suggest that it could be anything to do with his home life, at all, but are there potentially any issues going on which might be upsetting him?

For instance is his father around and if so, is he Ok with him?

Sometimes children seem to respond in this way when there is a problem with their dad or someone else who isn't being very nice, or is maybe putting their mum through a lot of stress etc.

Hope that doesn't come across as rude - just an idea and it could be any number of other things x

[swanthingafteranother]

Our school often allowed children to go in for half days till they were "ready" to cope with full day in Reception. I think it is very odd that everyone here should think it bad practice. In Ireland children don't do full days until year 1, and even then only till 2 through most of primary. In Europe for example Germany it is school till 1pm only.
My son who was eventually diagnosed wth Asperger's at 8, and behaved beautifully until 8, never went in full time until year 1. It helped him to adjust, and enjoy school, which he always DID, as he was never stretched too far at the beginning, and acclimatized when he was able to cope, which was later than some of his peers, no doubt because of the ASD (although we didn't know that at the time) He was not held back by missing afternoons at school aged four, as those afternoons would have been otherwise spent with him having a complete meltdown...how does that help a child learn?

I seriously question what is appropriate for a child with issues, maybe the enforced time in large groups, being told to be quiet and good for long periods, sensory overload, is far too much to cope with so early.

[sarahsal]

So pleased that you are both getting some support from school.
I can see both sides to the mornings- only debate but basically you need to think about your sons welfare. He isnt coping with afternoons at present and I can see no harm in him attending mornings only temporarily with an aim to phase him in to full-time asap.

Meanwhile the mornings should be seen as a way of giving him success in school -lots of positivity and the teacher telling you (in his hearing) all the good things he has done that day. He needs to see school as a place where they all think he is great!
Hopefully the Behaviour Team will observe him and then youll have a meeting to discuss whatever plan they put in place (TA support, a quiet corner, sticker chart.......) . Ask for one- try to see it as working together rather than them and us` which I understand is hard after your initial experiences with his teacher. Apart for anything else you are probably in a bit of a state of shock!
This should give you a chance to air your views , ask for timescales towards full-time (even if he does just 2-3 afternoons at first) and see what they think about other professionals becoming involved.
Believe me, everyone wants to solve this problem!!

Try not to worry -although I know you will!

[roxynixon23]

Hii,sorry i have not replyed for a while but out house has been struck by chicken pox lol so we tried the half day thing and it wasnt working out as he was naughty a few mornings and also played up as his brother was having packed lunch and he wasnt :( i dont think school are to pleased about this but hay ho! Ive arranged a meeting for next tuesday and parent partnerships will be attending with me :)what sort of things shal i discuss with them-i am really nervous as the head said "well we are only going to be about 5 mins arnt we"i was once again gob smacked!thankyou