to think someone operating a till should be able to calculate basic percentages?

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

I have come across this lack of basic mathematical ability twice now in the past month...

First I was at a Department store attempting to buy a curtain that had been reduced in price by 50% (it was £55 originally). The assitant scanned the item and to his horror it did not come up with the reduced price so he was left scratching his head for a couple of minutes before I helpfully pointed out that half of £55 is £27.50 he was literally trying to work it out on his fingers (I thought he was going to take his shoes and socks off!).

Today I went to a book shop with a 15% off voucher - picked up two books and took them to the till. The very pleasant young man serving me got his calculator out and tapped away for a bit before asking me how to work out percentages - I told him to divide by 100 and multiply by 15 to get the percentage to take off my purchase price. He duly did so.

Both were young men in their mid twenties neither seemed in any way to be particularly stupid just completely clueless. Is it too much to ask that people leave school able to do simple calculations - both of these sums I could do in my head and without the aid of paper or calculator so what the fug is going on???

[muminthemiddle]

When I worked in a bar the tills were not adding machines. Basically you had to know the prices of everything then add it all up in your head whilst serving, then key this in the till and then manually calculate the change.
On top of this the tills would only accept a maximum of £9.99 so eveytime you were over this amout you then had to do a subtraction and key in the difference to make up the correct amount.
I check my bills every time and always point out any mistakes-quite often shop assistants seem amazed that I am able to add up.
I think the reliance on computerised tills has a lot to answer for.

[JulesJules]

Oooo I love a nice piechart

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

must stop ignoring the children and do some parenting

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

nice try but I ignored multiple posts from the same posters in the stats - appreciate the effort though

We should do this for every AIBU - I am sure MN could be jazzed up by a few graphs and piecharts demonstrating exactly how unreasonable an opinion is!

[MiladyDeScorchio]

How is it now?

The original one wasn't too bad though

[MiladyDeScorchio]

YANBU

[MiladyDeScorchio]

YANBU

[MiladyDeScorchio]

YANBU

[MiladyDeScorchio]

YANBU

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

Well according to some very quick and dirty calculations I am 67.5% unreasonable!

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

Thank you milady - hmm statistical analysis - would take a little while but...

[MiladyDeScorchio]

OP don't be disheartened. Someone with more time might be able to go through the responses and express as a percentage whether YABU or not

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

Ok this thread has demonstrated I am a much harsher, nastier person that I ever thought - I honestly did not treat these men badly, I was just left a bit surprised - I certainly in no way thought they should lose their jobs.

I really did think that the sums were basic and obviously I am naive or superior or something. I am suddenly transported back to school when I was called 'posh talker' (my Mums fault I speak like her)and mocked for my enthusiam in class (and picked last in sports for teams) - sob weeep poor little me... etc.

So I will try not to be judgemental (in my thoughts) - I don't mind helping someone at the till or anywhere - I did on these ocassions but was surprised that it was required - I would never dream of making a remark or belittling someone in person on an issue like this - this has taught to be more circumspect in my comments on t'internet as well.

Still my name is bigmouthstrikesagain and lo and behold I have...

[MiladyDeScorchio]

My DD is doing percentages in school and she is in Year 5.

Fractions, decimals and percentages are revisited several times in primary IIRC and I'm glad they're taught as such because the concepts are intertwined.

Not sure about secondary but they should be because as people have said, it doesn't always click first time for people.

I recently found my old GCSE maths exercise books from 1988 and I can't believe I was ever able to do any it, or why half of it would ever be relevant to everyday life (vectors - WTF?) but I think that percentages are.

How for example would anyone ever be able to understand what basic statistics were telling them if they had no idea about them? That "per cent" means "for every hundred" Once you get that then it's easy to work out 50% by halving because most people know that 50p is half of a pound for example, and that 25p is half of that.

Percentages appear in novels, BBC news articles and in everyday life in the form of interest on loans. Given the number of unscrupulous companies which prey on the poor and / or the uninformed it is very important IMO to know this sort of thing.

I'm not intending to jeer at anyone with this post, and I've been on the receiving end of the snarky customer myself as a student, especially when they completely throw you by doing that, "I'll give you more money than the till says you have to give and you work out the correct change" when completely hungover frazzled.

Is there a technical term for that incidentally?

[somebodysfool]

PPS Its also cruel to mock "I helpfully pointed out that half of £55 is £27.50 he was literally trying to work it out on his fingers(I thought he was going to take his shoes and socks off!)."

[somebodysfool]

Ps I would have thought the the fact the two me n were "genial" was a far more important skill to have for working in a shop than their ability to do percentages. I would be more pissed off by a clever dick with an attitude problem!

[somebodysfool]

There are 3 possible reasons for their lack of knowledge.

1. dyscalculia (disability)

1. They have been failed by the education system (collective blame).

1. They are of below average intelligence (disability)

However regardless of which one should they be banned from working in a shop because of it? It obviously irked you but why should people have to meet your high expectations anyway? Its incredibly judgy of you and because its something you can do easily, you expect others to be able to do to, so yes smug.

I just wish we lived in a more tolerant society where we didn't have to be great at everything. Some of the most interesting people I know are crap at percentages and maths as apparantly the creative side compensates! In fact many writers have dyscalculia.

Interestingly those with dyscalculia are often clumsy and find it difficult to learn to drive due to spacial awareness problems.

[emptyshell]

It IS taught in schools, it's taught in primary schools - but percentages are one of those things loads of kids get by being slightly wobbly on, then manage to get into adult life and try to ignore the fact they existed.

I got to adulthood knowing how to work them out on a calculator - but the mental method of working 1%, 10%, 5% and deriving any others from there by moving the digits (not allowed to say move the decimal point!) just simply didn't occur to me until I did teacher training and was revising for my numeracy skills test when I had to be able to work some basick %s out mentally and quickly!

The bookshop were daft in that if they KNEW they were doing a 15% sale it would have made sense to put some kind of a ready reckoner at the tills for their staff at least - or make sure they knew how to work the discount out before letting the vouchers go live - but lots of people have areas of maths they kept their head down for in school, prayed the teacher didn't ask them a question and copied the answers from their neighbour - for me, algebra is my main one - I can get by, I'm very solid on the stuff I use in primary level work, but the higher level stuff... I need to read up on it before I use it, and because I don't use it regularly, I'm nowhere near as confident on it as I am with the stuff I use every day.

Let's face it - can you use all the French or whatever you were taught at school - or have you forgotten most of it because you're not using it day in and out? Maths is the same - you remember the bits you're using - my mental maths came on a treat when I started teaching because I was using so much more of it on a daily basis and it kept it all fresh in my mind, rather than musty and covered with cobwebs hidden in a corner!

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

Julesjules - 'I think YABU. I too know that face well,AmazingBouncingFerret The customer has been walking round the shop with her books or whatever, and has worked out the price of her one transaction - the person on the till may serve hundreds of people a day and has a lot of other things to think about -'

The bookshop I went to only ever has one person not at all overwhelmed person working there (a tiny shop in a one horse town)when I vist I am sure they wish they had 100's of transactions a day but I suspect the 15% vouchers they distributed through the local schools are an attempt to up the handful of customers flooding through their doors. The entire transaction was very relaxed and we had some pleasant banter about the difficulty of working out percentages and my dd who was dancing - but don't let the reality of my experience cloud you assumptions - I had not even really looked at the price on the back of the books I picked up too busy making sure dd was not taking books off the shelves!

[noblegiraffe]

"perhaps just make sure the percentage button is clearly marked"

They're not taught how to use the percentage button on their calculators at school. The scientific calculators that they are taught to use don't have them.

[mumblechum]

I blame all this newfangled modern technology.

When I were a lass I worked in a chippie and had to work out all the prices in my head. Consequently I can do mental arithmetic very quickly, (but got crap maths o level as that was about the only thing I could do

(twas limited to about 7 items, but still )

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

And by facilities I don't necessarily mean the ability to work it out in their heads but literally the hardware _ both men did have calculators so they should perhaps just make sure the percentage button is clearly marked!

But I really don't think people who are not able to calculate on the hop are stupid - I just thought people who are faced with pricing and charging for items everyday would probably be able to do it - if required with a calcultor.

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

I resent the implication that for pointing out something I thought should be a big part of working in a shop (that I was able to work out) means I am smug - there are plenty of things I can't do or find difficult (very clumsy, can't drive etc). I also worked in Lidls for two years after completing my degree (during the last recession). So if anything I tend to have high expectations of people in shops I know that people are not defined by their job aand enjoyed the company of my collegues we got each other through what was a boring and demanding job! So I fail to see how I am saying everyone who works in a shop is thick - precisely the opposite, my high expectations are the problem!

I still hold that dyscalculia aside (pretty coincidental that the two people I have come into contact with in shops requiring a percentage to be worked out would both have that issue - how common is it??) - the two genial men in their twenties (who work in shops but are not solely check out staff) should really have the facilities two work out percentages - I still hold that view.

I don't have a problem with being disagreed with really that comes with the territory on AIBU I just don't like being misunderstood - so I suppose I should take the criticism on the chin.

[somebodysfool]

Perhaps they had dyscalculia which is more common that dyslexia. I have always had a problem with maths well mental maths really. However I am very good at all things IT including progamming excel and databases etc so it has never affected my working career. I can also work things out on paper without issue just not in my head and yes I do panic when asked to. TBH I am probably worried the OP will think me thick!

Not everyone's the same you know we all have different talents and I delighted you can work percentages out in your head well done you. However you really shouldn't judge people on their level of intelligence without knowing the full facts however smug it makes you feel.

[JulesJules]

I think YABU. I too know that face well,AmazingBouncingFerret The customer has been walking round the shop with her books or whatever, and has worked out the price of her one transaction - the person on the till may serve hundreds of people a day and has a lot of other things to think about - complicated enquiries and orders, new stock to get out etc. Sometimes your brain just freezes, not helped by the patronising attitude of some customers who assume you are thick just because you work in retail.

I used to work in a bookshop, we all had degrees, and yes, you start on minimum wage. I found the worst people for not being able to work out % were teachers - it was truly horrifying how many teachers could not work out 10, 12 or 15% discount on their invoiced orders.