to be annoyed with my mum for wanting to feed 4 month DS solids?

[zebedeethezebra]

DS is 4 months tomorrow. Mum has been wanting to give him mashed banana since he was 6 weeks old. She's obsessed with giving him solids already.

Now, because he has been a bit off his milk (he's FF) for the last couple of weeks she thinks he's bored of milk and wants proper food. Its driving me mental. I've never heard of anything so ridiculous.

DS sleeps through the night and has been doing so for weeks, so he must be getting enough milk to keep him satisfied otherwise he'd be waking up.

Is anyone else's mum like this? How can I get her to back off? I'm waiting til DS is 6 months (give or take a week or so, but no more) before I start weaning like you're meant to.

[bruffin]

Tictok you are being patronising., Last week you denied that a) other countries had different advice and b) The AAP had changed its advice, even though I showed you two links. I did not mention allergies as to the reason the AAP changed their adivce. you are the one who keeps picking up on allergies as if it is irrelivant.

All you proved was that you are very good at deliberately misinterpreting other peoples posts, not just mine on that thread.

As to the EAT study It is a study in early days (I have never said anything else) which was set up because of the rise in allergies since the later introduction of solids.

and yes there is now evidence that late (aftger 6 months) introduction of gluton as well has early introduction can lead to caeliac disease.

The two reasons always given on here for later weaning is

A the gut is not ready, this as mentioned in the ESPGHAN paper is now longer considered a problem after 17 weeks as it is actually the introduction of food that leads to gut maturation.

and B Allergies - there is now evidence that delaying introducing solids to after 6 months will not prevent allergies, but there is evidence that introducing gluton later than 6 months can lead to cealiac disease and diabetes.

For those who are interested

AAP new guidelines
also see the ESPGHAN paper I linked to above.

[trixie123]

haven't read whole thread so apologies if repeating others. DS was mix fed and we started doing rusky milk at 4.5 months cos he started waking in the night after sleeping through from about 2months. There is enough uncertainty about the evidence and enough anecdotal stuff to suggest that 4-6 months is ok but equally waiting til 6 months is also ok. As to Op's mum's involvement, interest etc, is fairly normal especially if its the first grandchild. Agree that nothing should be done without OP's sayso but try to be patient. my mum i think had her confidence knocked a bit when every suggestion she made I had to meet with "but now they say you should..." i tried to make her feel better by asking her to show me things like how to bath DS when he was newborn (cos I didn't really know anyway). Try not to fall out with her - she is only trying to help!

[tiktok]

Don't be so sensitive, bruffin. I have just searched on your name to find our previous thread and there are 6 threads in the past 3 weeks where you pop up telling people their evidence is out of date, that now the guidance is that waiting to 6 mths is a cause of increased allergy, and that 4 mths is fine because of this...and we simply don't have the evidence for these assertions.

You misrepresent the EAT study. It is looking at the apparent rise in allergies since the 1970s (not since the UK guidance change in 2003 - that would be far too recent for any change to show up, especially as very few people wait to 6 mths any way) and speculating that delayed introduction of known allergenic foods does not reduce allergy.

Fair enough to investigate this, but not for you to use an ongoing study to tell mothers it's ok to introduce solids at 4 mths - especially not in a thread where an OP is asking for support against her mother who has been pushing her to give solids from 6 weeks.

I agree with you that the whole issue has very little to do with allergy - somehow or other, talkboards like mumsnet are awash with people who believe that solids before 6 mths increases the risk of allergy. We have no good evidence to show this. People don't need to worry that solids before 6 mths (but after 4 mths) are likely to damage their babies either, and I think people worry unnecessarily about this.

It's to do with nutritional needs - babies usually do not need solids before about 6 mths. After about 6 mths, they usually do. We have excellent empirical evidence for this. Giving solids before a child actually needs them risks the solids taking the place of the milk - again, we have good evidence for this. When solids take the place of milk too young, the risk is nutritional deficit...but as a direct link to damage, no, and I think it is helpful when people chill about this and watch their babies for genuine signs of readiness, rather than watching the calendar.

Genuine signs of readiness really don't happen before about 4 mths and almost always happen by about 6 mths. If people need actual time guides, then offering solids at about 6 mths is fine, and if they are convinced their baby is showing signs before this age, then to offer sooner than this, but not to shovel it in

A baby given something suitable to hold and lick will probably not manage to eat more than he actually needs or wants or can cope with digestively, so the OP's baby prob could manage a lick of a bit of banana that her grandmother is so anxious to give her, but she doesn't need it nutritionally or developmentally.

I don't know why you say I denied other countries have different guidance. I didn't. However, worldwide, and European, guidance is mostly for excl bf to 6 mths - there are some exceptions, which I am aware of.

[BabyGiraffes]

Heard somewhere to give solids after 16wks or 16lbs in weight, whichever is earlier. I find the current 'rules' quite frightening and I think people forget that the 6 months rule is a guideline only! I started dd1 at about 18 weeks because she was hugely hungry still despite 8oz bottles of milk. DD2 is 14 wks and already watches my toast and cereal in the morning like a hawk...
My advice is to be led by the baby but I feel a bit by some of the post here of MILs giving ice cream, red wine, tea...! If mine tried that she'd get an earfull!!!!!!!!!

[tiktok]

Giraffes - that '16 weeks or 16 lbs' thing is very, very old....it was never official but it was a rule of thumb decades ago.

I agree - it makes every sort of sense to watch the baby, but sometimes, the signs are misinterpreted. Watching someone eat is not a sign of anything except the normal developmental change that makes babies really interested in what other people are doing - it's cute but it's not a sign of needing to eat more.

[slhilly]

zebedeethezebra, may be worth taking a step back and asking why your mum is so keen to give him food. I mean at least one level down from "because he's bored of his milk". If we take that at face value, what does she think may go wrong? Is she worried he'll starve / fail to thrive? If we don't take that at face value, is this actually about something else, eg a battle of wills for who knows best? Is she finding it difficult to accept that her daughter is also a mother, for example? Does she think it's her duty to make sure you listen to her advice? What's really going on?

[nappyaddict]

16 weeks is too early and i know a 14 week old baby that is 21 lbs so the 16 lb rule is very off too.

Most people go by the 17 weeks to 26 weeks rule. However to know whether they are ready before 26 weeks you need to do some BLW really not solely spoon feed. Most won't be ready much closer to 26 weeks because they need to be able to sit up straight in a highchair either supported by the straps or by stuffing something down the sides, pick up chunks of food, put it in their mouth, chew it and then then swallow it. At 17 weeks a lot of them will be able to do all that but they will just gum and suck it, they won't swallow it until much closer to 26 weeks. You can tell if they have swallowed anything by looking in their nappy later iyswim.

[BabyGiraffes]

ooof, sorry, maybe it was 18 wks or 18 lbs. or 17?....... Hmm. brain frazzled.
Anyway, checked and started dd1 at 22 weeks but then it was just tasters really for quite a few weeks. She loved it though and did a goldfish expression of opening and closing her mouth in case something edible came her way

[tinkletinklelittlestar]

This thread is brilliant.

I have been getting hints about potty training from MIL (bought my DD a musical potty for Xmas) for about 6 months (DD is 22 months and is now maybe ready) but I am lucky my DPs brothers girlfriend is a nursery practitioner because she said every kid is different - the hints stopped after that.

Another one about tea, 'oh it won't be long before she has some baby tea'. I mean 'baby tea' really! I said 'no she bloody won't'.

Your baby your rules not hers - she should respect that but, there is an unwritten law that mums can interfere when it comes to grandchildren.

[SirBoobAlot]

My mother has so far fed my DS:

Custard

Gravy

Icing

Chocolate icing

Ice cream

Chocolate

Sponge cake

He is 6 months. I started weaning early but she seemed to take this as permission to feed him whatever the hell she fancies when my back is turned. Was not bloody impressed when I returned to the front room to find her laughing and taking pictures of his face covered in chocolate.

There is also two tubs of formula milk in the cupboard for "just in case I change [my] mind about the breastfeeding...". Every time we have a rough night, and there are many at present as he is suffering badly with his teeth, its, "Why don't you give him a bottle? One bottle won't hurt, and you'd get some sleep... I could just go make one up now, if you want..." AHHHHHHHHHH!!! I know formula isn't poison but the fact is I have chosen to breastfeed.

Bloody mothers... Am grateful that DPs mother is middleclass more restrained.

Think is, I reckon our DDs / DILs will be on here in 20+ years saying exactly the same thing

[cory]

One thing I seem to remember from the 4 months weaning of 13 years ago was that weaning was often very very slow, starting with licking at tiny spoonfuls of mainly-milk-slush, so that a baby weaned in this way was still getting a substantial amount of its nutrition from the breastmilk (or formula) at 6 months. At least that's how I and my friends did it and the HVs seemed to advocate. I have no memories of solids taking the place of bm until much later.

[cory]

What I find helps with mothers is the brisk approach (We're doing it this way) and not too much information^ (particularly not when you're struggling). Tell them what you want them to do to help you, and hope that keeps them busy enough not to offer unsolicited advice (well, it won't actually, but it's a start .

[worriedaboutskinnybaby]

You see, I've been thinking a lot about this over the last week. I posted here and on another forum about my 23 week old son who has been dropping weight.. it's a long story and I'm not going to go into it here but it did get me thinking. Surely weaning guidelines are, well, guidelines. There is no other aspect of development where you can categorically say that x should be happening at y stage. I met a baby yesterday who is three weeks younger than my ds and he is rolling both ways and pushing up on to his hands and knees ready to crawl. My ds can roll on to his back from his front but often just lies on his tummy shouting at me to flip him! I know another baby who was pulling to stand at six months.. again, not going to happen for us.. but ds has been an early babbler and, indeed, has met all his vocal milestones early or on time.

So, although I understand that, well, all that is baby-dictated and solids can be parent-dictated, I do think the insistence on a 26 week start point for solids is silly if you don't take individual factors into account. I am going to do babyled weaning (now, having got go ahead) and so far have let my ds push giant chunks of avocado/butternut squash/carrot/pear, around on a plate.. he has been able to pick some up and get it TO his mouth but he ain't getting anything in there really, think he had an exploratory suck on the avocado yesterday. The amount of food/calories he would be getting from his exploratory suck are laughable and I fully believe, kind of in line with what cory says, that they won't start dropping solids until they need to.

Even if you spoon feed a typical baby, it is still fairly low calorie for a long time AND they will push the food they don't want out of their mouth so I really do wonder about the validity of statements that I sometimes see saying that solids will fill babies up and prevent them from taking milk feeds. You'd want to be giving them an awful lot of baby rice AND restricting their milk feeds if this were to happen. In fact, now that I've read about these things, I suspect that if babies early wean because of solids, it's more often than not due to parents deciding they don't 'need' a feed than anything the baby is really doing.

[OtterInaSkoda]

cory - I remember the same (ds now 9). The process was slow, and baby led in that you didn't force the baby to eat, with a view to gradually introducing firmer textures and tastes so that come 6 or so months, the baby would be able to eat small amounts of meat and fish (or whatever). I think this had something to do with iron reserves having been depleted by 6 months (are there lots of aneamic babies these days btw?). We didn't introduce wheat until at least 6 months, either, probably later.

First thing I gave ds was a little baby rice in BM. He thought this was pointless (I imagine his thinking "BM only thicker and off a spoon - wtf?" ). A bit of cooked pear and BM, or banana and BM was like nectar however.

[withorwithoutyou]

My mum gets mortally offended by anything we do nowadays that she didn't do - e.g. grobags, they're wrong apparently, all wrong, blankets are better (yes, far better to run the risk of them suffocating )

In the end I got fed up of her opining about it all and just said "look, no one expected you to parent like it was 1950 so stop criticising me for not doing the things you did 30 years ago."

I think she just felt a bit insecure about it all, that we'd be thinking it's a wonder she managed to get me and my brother to adulthood at all. Which, to be honest, it is, considering this is the woman who likes to balance her cup of tea on top of DD's toy garage. But that's a whole other thread!

[nappyaddict]

Actually I'm not keen on grobags either but only cos I know of a child who overheated in one.

worriedaboutskinnybaby Has your DS actually lost weight or just dropped down the centiles?

[SirBoobAlot]

I love GroBags. Best thing I ever bought. Otherwise I would be up every ten minutes tucking my wiggly worm DS back in...

[nappyaddict]

Ah you see I had a blanket with velcro on it - no tucking required!