to object to paying for care for my in-laws?

[fircone]

Pil have always lived high on the hog - best of everything.

Now they're in their 80s and need to consider help: gardening, cleaning and probably personal care too.

Now, dh's brothers have mooted that the three sons should be responsible for the payment of this and I am livid. Mil spends money like water. She has masses of expensive jewellery, only buys food in M&S, vists the hairdresser evey week, they used to go on five holidays a year etc etc. Now if they've run out of money that is THEIR problem.

I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable feeling so mad, and I know if I object to paying I'm going to fall out with dh in a big way, but it doesn't seem fair. I budget really carefully and now I feel I have scrimped for nothing.

Also, pil have always been incredibly mean with other people. they wouldn't even let dh go away to university because they refused to contribute to his grant.

[Qally]

Can I ask what the situation is with your own parents? And if your DC will need help with university etc? The problem with starting a system of help now is that there may be other calls, later.

I don't think your PIL had any kind of moral obligation to help you or your DH financially, but that goes both ways IMO. They didn't feel obligated before, why should you be any more so?

[zipzap]

It is their problem - YANBU. But you can also understand that their sons might want to help them. BUT - you can only afford as much as you can afford (in terms of both time and money) regardless of what they need. Have the parents been involved in the mooting of providing them with extra funds or is this something that the brothers have cooked up between them?

Definitely think that before you go into any meeting about this, you need to sit down and work out your own budget - not just for now but for the future and include contributions now for both university/education accounts for your children and a pension/savings for you - whether or not you actually do put them into a savings account, it is not unreasonable to expect to put something towards your futures, especially if you don't have a pension/named education savings at the moment.

You need to make a list of all sorts of different scenarios too - which might not be so nice to contemplate - so that you don't committ yourself to something that you can't get out of should circumstances change.

scenarios - sort of thing I am thinking about is:

• their circumstances

* both parents just live for 1/2/3/5/10/etc years at home
* one parent moves into a home after xx years
* two parents move into a home together
* one parent moves into a home, other follows on later or has to move into a different home
* MIL dies first
* FIL dies first
* amount of money they have currently
* amount they can raise
* amount they are entitled to
* what they need now
* what they will need potentially in the future
* what will be the trigger points for you stopping to provide support or changing support depending on things in their life

• for you guys (and also brothers and their families - just realised you haven't mentioned if the bIL are married and thus don't have your extra outgoings?)

* what happens if one of you gets made redundant? (sorry, not wanting to imply that you will but in this case think you want to think of as many 'worst cases' as you can IYSWIM)
* what happens if both of you get made redundant
* are they basing amout you contribute on your joint income - in which case, what if you need to contribute towards your parent(s)?
* what happens when you need/want to contribute towards other things (such as the education stuff that people have mentioned, could well be other stuff that you have been saving up big time for in the future like a big holiday or something that this would mean you couldn't do?
* what happens when you retire if they are still alive and your income plummets - are they then going to expect your dc to pick up your share too
* what happens if something happens to your dh - would you still be expected to pay up?
* what happens if one of the brothers can't pay their share - would you be expected to pick it up?

etc etc but it is definitely worth thinking about and having a list of these before you go in then your dh can't get talked into something without at least some of the situations being looked at first.

There are some budgeting planners on moneysavingexpert.com that are worth checking out, for both you and your PIL.

Do your BsIL get paid considerably more or less than you? (sorry, realise I am saying you, but meaning you and your dh throughout really). Is it a way of them wanting to appear generous to their parents but getting you to foot a big chunk of the bill?

Are they expecting you to provide out of your savings or your current income?

If they are going to do it on how you budget then you need a couple of quick expensive weeks so that your regular expenditure is bigger and thus your surplus is smaller ) After all, if your PIL are making their budget on the basis of M&S prices then you should be too (regardless of what your actual reality is - but they certainly shouldn't be budgeting for M&S if you aren't!)

just realised that this post has gone on way too long and also has in haste assumed stuff about dc etc that were actually questions from others for you, so sorry about that.

but good luck - and make sure you at least have a bank account that is away from the brothers' grasp so that you can keep money for your retirement in (even if it is just the difference between your normal shop and an M&S one and a haircut a week!)

[KIMItheThreadSlayer]

They are not your problem and they should not be your DHs problem either.

Let MIL sell her expensive sparkley bits and eat from tesco like the rest of us do.

[LaurieFairyCake]

If they need care then they should sell their home to fund it and go into a care home or fund help.

That is what assets are for. That is what their paid off house is for.

You come in with nothing and people should be pleased to go out with nothing.

[tatt]

actually rather disturbed by the latest posts. It's understandable not to want to fund champagne lifestyle for someone else when you're drinking water. But children do have a moral responsibility to help their parents if they really need it.

As parents we don't - usually - cast our children off because they've done something we disapprove of. We go on loving them and looking to help, although perhaps in different ways. So I assume these brothers have at least some residual afection for their parents and perhaps even a little gratitude! So they will be looking to provide help, even if that is for their parents to come to terms with the need for a different lifestyle.

[traceybath]

Its a tricky one. I've helped my own mother in the past when she was struggling.

Are the other brothers a lot better off than you so it wouldn't make much difference to them?

I'd sit down with your DH work out how much you could if any to spend on helping them each month bearing in mind you may end up doing the same for your parents.

Agree with other posters though that some practical help may be the way to go or taking the lead in sorting out what they're entitled to.

[piscesmoon]

If they had scrimped and saved and were hard up I think it would be very different-I don't think that someone who has scrimped, saved and been careful with money themselves should be financing their life style.
I would sit down with them-work out their finances and get them to be realistic and 'cut their coat according to the cloth'.e.g.MIL gets her hair cut every 5 weeks, they don't go on holiday and they can't buy food in M& S.
I would get them to contact Age Concern who would come to their house and discuss various options-there may be some that you are completely unaware of.They could get meals on wheels for a start.
I would give generously of my time e.g help them with shopping, cook meals for the freezer, take them out for the day; but I wouldn't be willing to finance a lifestyle that I don't think they can afford.

[FabBakerGirlIsBack]

I was thinking about this and when my Nana was alive we offered her financial help. She wouldn't take it so we were generous at birthdays and Christmas. I think partly it was pride but also she knew we didn't have a lot of spare money.

fircone, would your ILs even accept help?

[HSMM]

What will you do if you miss out on a holiday to fund them and then they go on holiday?

[HSMM]

Sorry ... what I really mean is ... it's too late to judge them on their past expenditure, but if you are funding them, then you do have some say on their future spending.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

if their house is small then it wont take long for either your dh and brothers to go and do it once a week - if live near - if not then to club together and hire a cleaner - sure the place wont need more than 4hrs a week

all of you need to sit down and discuss it,are the bil married? if so then their wives need to be consulted as well

they can cut down on buying food from M&S (yummy) and shop in tescos,asda or sains - plus lidl is good for fruit and veg etc

fircone -would you help out your parents if they needed it?

whats the saying?

a mum can look after and care for 5 children but 5 children cant look after and care for one mum!

[morningpaper]

Yes I second Age Concern - there may well be benefits that they are entitled to that they are not claiming such as attendance allowance, council tax rebate, pensions credits etc.

[piscesmoon]

I was amazed at all the things that my mother could get, like attendance allowance-so was she! Someone from Age Concern came around to the house. For example she got a lot of appliances, like a handle fixed to the bed to make getting out easier, all for free and fitted free. If you don't ask you never find out. You could have a chat with Age Concern first-they are very helpful.

[ceebie]

Fircone - a 'brothers' conference' is fine for 3 single brothers - or if the brothers and their wives have entirely independent finances. But in any marriage, financial decisions must be made by both partners. I would be extremely forceful on this issue if I were you. Your husband does not have independent control of your finances therefore any decisions which affect your finances must be made by both of you together as a couple. Any 'conference' should have all wives in attendence too. This doesn't mean that you will necessarily oppose what the brothers want to do, but that they must include you in any decision-making process. Also, my strong opinion would be that if you are being asked to contribute to their care, then you have a right to a full understanding of their financial situation. I'm sorry but if the family's feeling is that the parent's financial circumstances are private, then they can't expect you to be willing to contribute, can they?

[fircone]

Some really interesting points here. Thanks v much. And thanks, ceebie, for pointing out that the sons are not single with independent finances. Their choice of action will impact on three families.

[Ponders]

I said that too (16:52 yesterday...)

Not that I mind being overlooked or anything...

[OrmIrian]

fircone - what do you think should happen? Bearing in mind that this situation isn't going to go away.

[NanaNina]

I certainly don't thinkk its' reasonable for kids to be financially supporting their parents. We are in our mid 60s and would never ever dream of wanting this. In fact I am always trying to think of ways we can help our sons and their families financially.

Some posts have mentioned the possibility that the brothers are concerned to keep their parents at home so that their home doesn't have to be sold to pay Care Home fees but this is maybe a long shot and a bit unfair. Don't rule it out though, I am always amazed at how selfish some people can be when it comes to money. Inheritance tax doesn't kick in unless the estate is worth more than £300,000 (think that's right)

I think you should look into whether the PILS are claiming all they are entitled to ie. Attendance Allowance (which as its name suggests is to help pay for help with housework, gardening etc) Also consider applying for Disabled Living Allowance (DLA). Thankfully we still have a welfare state (of sorts anyway) and no one in this day and age should need to have an impoverished old age.

My In laws only recently died and they paid £15 per week for a cleaner which was not a huge amount. You could contact Social Services and ask for a Care Assessment of the PILS and this can trigger other help, like Meals on Wheels (charge of around £3.50 per day) and would consider what other help they may need. sometimes there is a waiting list for the assessment to be done but it is worth putting the wheels in motion.

Finally I think your H should consider your views rather than just side with his brothers. What do the other Ps/wives think?

Hope this is of somehelp.

[roneef]

i find this thread quite sad.

i am happy to help my parents in any way and obviously the same goes f or my dh parents.

it must be.a.british.thing.sorry.keyboard .jammed.very. sel
fish.

[piscesmoon]

There is no way that I am going to be a burden on my DCs when I get old-I am not expecting them to look after me or pay for me. I have had a wonderful time bringing them up-I chose to have them and they don't 'owe me'. My mother needs a lot of help now, which I am happy to do, but there is no way that she would want to live with us.
If OP is to help financially she needs the whole picture and her PIL need to adapt their lifestyle-sell a lot of the jewellery for a start. I don't think it at all fair that people who have spent their money having a wonderful time, should then want to spend someone else's who hasn't had the time or money to do the same. Age doesn't stop people being selfish.