To hate certain things people say.......

[blondissimo]

Following on from this thread, I realised that the way other people speak sometimes really grates me!

My dp and all his family say things to my ds (who thankfully is not old enough to understand) such as:

"Was you a good boy, was you?"

"I done it as well"

"Free or four"

Aargh!

And to top it off, on my side of the family, my dsis (in Scotland) says:

"Hunners" (hundreds)

"I'll no be doin' that" (no = not)

"Ye canny do that" (canny = can't)

I do worry about my ds!

Am I being unreasonable - yes, probably. But I don't care.

[Overmydeadbody]

people who say "sould of" instead of "should have" or "could of" instead of "could have"

[blondissimo]

Ok...sorry if I offended anyone - did not realise that dialects were as such.

But I don't really buy it that saying "Was you?" is part of a dialect.

[MIFLAW]

Well, it is, whether you accept it or not.

[GibbonInARibbon]

Really though, in the grand scheme of life, is it really that much of an issue? I felt sad for your DP and his family...imagine how they would feel knowing how 'thankful' you are that your DS is not old enough to hear their appalling attempts at speech?

[Roomfor2]

I don't agree that dialects are not bad grammar. Personally I have no issue with accents but I don't want my DCs to learn dialect as I see many people who can't write a proper sentence in English because they have been brought up thinking that their regional dialect is correct English.

Such as Alan Sugar always saying 'You was...' instead of 'You were...'

It's just plain wrong. It's the wrong verb to use with that subject.

[MIFLAW]

Do you actually understand what a dialect IS, Roomfor2 (et al)?

The language you are defending as "correct" is itself a dialect of English. It just happens to be the one chosen not very long ago (ie within the last 200 years) as being the "official" one.

Shakespeare, for example, uses a completely different dialect (ie he's different not just because he's old, but because of where he came from in England.) I suppose he's "wrong" too ...

[MIFLAW]

Time for me to bail out - I could waste all day arguing this otherwise.

[jeminthepantry]

lol MIFLAW... yeah language is fluid, it's always evolving, however some people struggle with that concept....it's nice to feel 'right' and 'proper' for some...whatever!

[FranSanDisco]

Standard English is a dialect of English and is the one taught in schools. Language is evolving all the time. Some accents are more fashionable than others at a given time. We all switch our registers of speech according to social contexts and to fit in. Fascinating subject but not one to be snooby about.

[FranSanDisco]

snooby = snobby (east end dialect LOL)

[blondissimo]

All I know is that if my ds starts writing "you was" and "should of" in his books at school then he is going to get told off - so in my eyes, in that respect these things are incorrect.

It's not a big deal and this thread was supposed to be lighthearted - fail to see why an innocent mock of IL's grammar is any worse than all the AIBU posts of how much they hate/are annoyed with IL's.

[FranSanDisco]

For those of us who are judged as not quite good enough because of where we were born it grates a little.

[Roomfor2]

I'm talking about using the wrong verb with the wrong subject, such as:

You was
You am
They am
Her is

And I know plenty of people who couldn't write or say these things correctly if they needed to.

I'm sorry, but if you wrote those combinations of subject/verb in a class at school, it would be (or at least, should be) marked wrong.

It's not my opinion, it is fact.

Fair enough if you say that what is perceived as 'correct' these days did in fact arise from a dialect itself, but the difference is that it is now perceived as correct country-wide, not just in one region. A Londoner, for example, would not say 'You am...', as a person from the Black Country might. Yet, we are ALL taught that 'you are' is the correct way to say it in school, regardless of where we are from.

Anyway, who knew this would be such a hotbed of opinions!

[Roomfor2]

FranSanDisco - you are victimising yourself there. I was born in a place where a strong dialect is commonplace, but I still was taught the right way and the wrong way to use English verbs. It doesn't matter where you were born, it is about what you learn, which I think is what the OP was trying to say. She want's to teach her DCs the right way to use the language, as do I.

I think that being judged for trying to give our DCs the best ability to use their language correctly is more unfair, actually.

[blondissimo]

FranSanDisco - no-one is being judged on where they were born.

I was born in Manchester and brought up in Scotland, yet I do not speak in any dialect, as I was tought 'proper English' at school.

There is nothing 'wrong' with regional dialects - I apologise if it has come across that there is.

[blondissimo]

ahem, taught

[Mumcentreplus]

[blondissimo]

Totally agree with you Roomfor2 - I know I will get flamed for this, but I think that certain words and phrases in regional dialects have occurred due to a mispronunciation/grammatical error being made and passed on through generations so that it then becomes commonplace in that region.
I still say "you was" is wrong.

[Roomfor2]

There's nowt wrong with regional dialects....

I just don't think that children should be 'taught' to speak a dialect before they can speak plain English.

[Roomfor2]

Agree blondissimo - you was is wrong in my book, too.

Other dialect things are fine - like in coventry, they call a bread roll a batch, whereas in my hometown, it is more likely to be called a buttie. Have no problem with that, because neither is wrong, just different.

[blondissimo]

Can I just clear up what I am trying to say here.

If someone says "ain't" or "nowt" or "innit" etc, I see it as dialect.

If someone says, "Wasn't you" or "I fink so" I feel that is wrong grammar/pronounciation.

[blondissimo]

Ah, x posted - we must be brain-sharing Roomfor2 !

[AMumInScotland]

A dialect is about more than just using a slightly different (or very different) word for something. It's also a whole set of grammatical rules which are just plain different from "standard" English.

The problem for huge numbers of people is the question of "Who got to decide what is standard?" The version of English we now consider to be standard, and to which schools expect children to stick, was only the "normal" language of a very small subset of the UK population, even if you don't count those who spoke completely separate languages (Gaelic, Welsh, Cornish).

So the rest of us, who come from generations of people who have spoken in a certain way, have to use a different dialect in school to keep the teachers happy, compared with what we use in everyday life.

We can learn to do that, and use language differently in different situations. But we don't have to be happy to be judged on it - our dialects are just as valid as the one tiny dialect which had the good fortune to be labelled as the "standard".

[Mumcentreplus]

I correct my DDs comprehension,grammar,verbs because they do need to know the current correct dialect. simples

but tbh as you get older you can usually skip between the two...and speak in an appropriate manner for a particular situation.