to think about bringing a claim for unfair dismissal?

[mummy2isla]

Right ... I'm a solicitor, when I was pregnant my employers worked me like you wouldn't believe (including one episode of working from 7am til 5am) and also made loads of sexist comments like "but you won't come back to work cos mums need to stay at home with their babies", "bloody hell you've got fat", "big tits" etc .. then didn't pay me a bonus. I brought a grievance while on mat leave which they replied to and tbh I just left as wanted a job to come back to.

Came back at beginning of May (3 days / wk)and have now been told am being made redundant (along with a girl who's pregnant). They've also taken over another firm this week with (non-pregnant, non-mothers) who do the same job as me.

I've told them I'm going to claim and offered a settlement and have just received a letter saying they're not offering anything. Statutory redundancy pay only. I think this after my 10 months on statutory mat pay is going to bankrupt us!

I do think though am I being unreasonable and should I just leave it, and move on? I don't know if I've got a fight in me at the moment!

[SkyrosSister]

I would echo what Slambang says and just ask you to put to one side the injustice of itall and the fact that you know you have been treated unfairly and look at the facts on which you can make a case. You will need to present this to a tribunal who need facts, times, dates, incidents, maybe back-up from other members of staff etc etc. If you think you can do this then of course you should go for it, but if there isn't enough of a case for you to build then you should think twice.

On the one hand you have nothing to lose, but it is time consuming and stressful, so there is little point if you can see from the outset that there is no hope.

From my own personal experience the tribunal process is very complex and lengthy and hard on your own ( I couldn't afford legal advice and the CAB were shite and my own professional body were worse than shite ). I spent an incredibly long time on my case and found it totally draining.

We got as far as the first hearing which I found truly awful - me in my sicky post-baby clothes trying to keep up with things and feeling totally out of depth vs a large high-street bank who brought in a team of 4 slick-suited bitches who could not have been more patronising if they had tried. Their side of the case was in 4 different ring binders, just to give you an idea of the detail in what was an actually quite simple case.

The outcome of that hearing was that a lot of info had to be resubmitted because of an error I had made. The irony was that although it was my fuck up both sides needed to re-do all the work. I decided to wait until the deadline to resubmit the papers and then pull out - I just couldn't do it anymore. Luckily they offered out of court before then because obviously it was costing them so much in legal fees it wasn't in their interest to continue.

My case was really watertight and I know that with legal representation i would have got more out of them - in fact i think i could probably have won on my own it was so black and white, but I still settled, and I would have given up because it was so hard. It is rubbish that the system makes it so difficult, but it is, so be warned.

[smittenkitten]

HI M2isla

sorry to hear about your situation - it's a rough time.

I'm not clear what the outcome of your grievance was, so that would be useful to know.

it sounds like you may have a case for sex discrimination, but the grievance will be key, so fill me in on what the outcome was.

[smittenkitten]

just another thought. have you been given the chance to bring a colleague or union rep to consultation meetings? How many consultation meetings are there in the process?

[ABetaDad]

You need to rase a sex discrimination claim as well as unfair dismissal as the payout is uncapped in an SD case but unfair dismissal the payour is capped.

[mummy2isla]

Sorry my internet just cut out! The outcome of my grievance was:

1. Various people were sorry for what they had said and it was not the feelings of the firm in general.

1. Re bonus payments although I made 147% of my target the goalposts had changed and there was an unwritten policy (and unknown to HR) that you now had to make 4.5x your salary in order to get a bonus, which I hadn't done.

I've had a chance to bring a colleague or union rep but no union reps for us. Asked one colleague but she felt uncomfortable doing so and nobody else I could think of who would've been.

I am just sh*tting myself about having to go through it all - am a commercial lawyer with v v little experience of any litigation work.

[tallulahbelly]

Do fight it, please.

Too tired to add more atm but wanted to add my support and promise to catch up tomorrow.

[mummy2isla]

thanks tallulahbelly ... am going to try and get some sleep before work tomorrow

[llareggub]

Check your household insurance and many policies provide cover for legal costs relating to employment disputes.

Sorry to post and run but baby crying. Good luck.

[LovingtheSilverFox]

Don't really have anything suitable to contribute as it has all been said, but want to add my support. It sounds as though you have been treated fairly shabbily.

Good luck

[blueshoes]

mummy2isla, also want to give you my support. I cannot believe you work for a law firm, as they should know their actions are leaving them wide open to an action such as yours, for unfair dismissal And (the biggie) sex discrimination. All the more if you don't think it will be easy for you to find another job. They sound decidedly amateurish.

Whether or not you have the appetite to take this all the way to an employment tribunal, do take proper employment legal advice and make them sweat. Turn up at work everyday, however crap that makes you feel, because psychologically that turns the thumbscrews on them and (chances are) they will eventually throw redundancy money at you to go away.

Telling them you are taking legal advice (as you have done) is also a good tactic.

It is a really shit thing to do to you, especially when you have a young baby to look after, but then they are counting on your being sapped of fighting spirit.

You are not being unreasonable. I hope you get a good outcome.

[Seabright]

M2I, go to the bbc website and the "listen again" section for Woman's Hour, Tuesday's programme. The Grand Fromage of the Fawcett Society was on, talking about the fact the pregnant women/mother are hugely discrimated against. very interesting programme.

[diffnametoday]

I just name changed for this although not really a regular poster. I just wanted to say that you really should bring a case against them. their behaviour is utterly sexist and disgraceful. It sounds to me as if you have a strong claim.
I am currently bringing a case of unfair dismissal against my ex employers so it is a subject close to my heart! I was dismissed days after making a protected disclosure.
It is worth checking if you have legal cover on your home ins policy as we are getting all of our legal costs covered by our ins policy. Otherwise, we would have been unable to bring the case. Have you tried speaking to other colleagues in the office to see if anyone may be prepared to be a witness although of course this is difficult if they are still working there. The fact that the other person they are making redundant is pregnant seems also in your favour. It is definitely talking to some good employment solicitors who can advise you of your chances. Really good luck!!

[ilovemydogandmrobama]

Seem to remember that a large percentage of sex discrim cases are brought (and won!) against legal firms. Ask one of your employment people about this.

You do need to be practical about this though, and think about future work. Unfortunately, the legal profession is a small world, and would bringing a claim at this stage be beneficial?

Ideally, you would be able to secure another job and then file?

The other factor is that perhaps this is their opening offer and are treating you as a client and entering into negotiations? You put forward a proposal, they refused, now the ball is in your court, so to speak...

[blueshoes]

ilove, over the course of my career, although I have never brought a claim just yet, I have taken legal advice on more than one occasion.

And the lawyer said the things that law firms (of all things), City even, try to get away with is disgraceful. If everyone of her female clients decided to sue, she would not have time for anything else. But many do not, for lots of reasons.

Main thing is how strong is OP's case. If she is not getting proper redundancy compensation and may be some time before she gets another job, at least threatening legal proceedings is something worth thinking about, particularly where the employer is so unprofessional (which is a good thing for OP).

BTW, my law firm would be a lot more subtle and legal arse-covering about doing this sort of thing.

[GrendelsMum]

A friend took a large catalogue company to court for unfair dismissal, and was always very proud of having done it, as were her friends and family - she was less interested in the cash than stopping them doing the same thing to other women. For her, it was stressful at the time, but as I say, something she was proud to have done.

[Nancy66]

I think you most definitely have grounds and that they have behaved appallingly.

I also agree with Abetadad in that they are playing the long game and hoping you will retreat but will more than likely offer you a settlement when they know you mean business.

BUT to pick up on your other point about it affecting your future employment. I don't know much about working in the legal field but, certainly, in my field (journalism) it's a fairly small and incestuous business and if I took action it would make me pretty much untouchable in the business.

A friend - a very talented and able journalist took action against one of the biggest papers in the Uk and won. She's hardly worked since. In my area you're seen as a 'troublemaker.'

It's shit and totally unfair but, alas, it is a point to consider.

[blueshoes]

Nancy66, the troublemaker/scuppering future employment opportunities is definitely a concern. Law does not sound as incestuous as journalism, but it is worthwhile for OP to consider her specific practice area. My area of work was only done by a handful of City firms, so taking a firm to employment tribunal would be a last resort and only realistic if I had a strong case for Sex Discrimination and wanted to cash out (of employment) with a bang.

Agree with you and betadad that the OP should hold out for a settlement (ie enhanced redundancy payment) rather than go all the way. That way, it can be kept confidential under the terms of the agreement.

My law firm does not settle any employment claims as a matter of principle and have always contested. But it is very sophisticated in its handling of potential employment law suits, relying on preventative rather than fire fighting.

It seems like OP's law firm is, however, rather amateurish in its approach. It is not certain whether they have a clear policy on this.

One thing to check with the employment lawyer is how linked the other lawyer who is being let go is to the OP's. ie if the firm gives the OP an enhanced package, whether they need to give the other lawyer the same package. It will affect negotiations.