To think the terms 'cruel' and 'abusive' are used too lightly on MN

[1308]

I think we should be a more child centred society and real abuse should be disclosed. This includes emotional abuse which largely goes ignored.

However where do we draw the line between occasional imperfect parenting and the term abuse?

On MN I have read that walking too fast whilst holding your child's hand is abusive. That threatening to withold pudding because the child won't eat main course is abusive. The smacking debate also worries me because although I am anti smacking, I do not feel that a mum who has a less than pefect moment and smacks her child because she is at the end of her tether, should be labelled a child abuser.

I was the victim of emotional abuse at the hands of a bullying father and passive mother. I would never treat my child like this, yet I will admit on the very odd occasion I have tapped him on the leg through sheer frustration and exhaustion. I have felt guilty and apologised and hugged him. I know it is wrong, so am I an abuser?

Where are these perfect parents who never shout, smack, bribe or threaten?

[AitchTwoOh]

just wait until the baby's here and your other dcs are glued to cbeebies.

[barnsleybelle]

1308... Good on you for coming back.. Respect lady..

BTW.. get to bed, get some rest as i'm sure you know labour can be cruel .

[1308]

Okay, Okay I jumped the gun. I am 40 weeks pregnant so don't be too cruel

Just having some bad parent moments this week and a little sensitive.

[AitchTwoOh]

or indeed dearth.

[AitchTwoOh]

vair true, worm of death.

[Dearthworm]

Arf has been around for ever. Wasn't it used for laughter in comics like Beano, etc?

[AitchTwoOh]

(i think it may originally have been a cod-ism).

[barnsleybelle]

Listen here aitch... I have all on to keep going to useful stuff, then acronyms to understand a great deal of what's on here, without you starting with stuff that's not listed

[AitchTwoOh]

arf. as in lol but with a touch of touche. (how the hell do you do an accent on here?)

[barnsleybelle]

aitch... arf???

[AitchTwoOh]

arf, bb.

[barnsleybelle]

In fact, sorry for being pedantic but i have just re-read the toddler walking thread and the word "abuse" is not mentioned once throughout.

So 1308, would you mind explaining this line in your op
"On MN I have read that walking too fast whilst holding your child's hand is abusive."

So it seems it is you who is actually using the word too loosely

[AitchTwoOh]

you just CANNOT police the way that people interpret cruelty or abuse, 1308. and there's a world of difference between the way it's used on here and on a social services report.

i'm with littlebella, i say thank christ for the women on here who are prepared to stand up for what they believe in. that includes you, 1308, even if what you believe is not what i believe.

[barnsleybelle]

I think what has narked me most is that 1308 has stated in her op a direct link to a thread i was on started by sunburnt. 1308 has said that in this op a person suggested that walking too fast for a toddler was abusive. But that is incorrect. Sunburnt suggested it was "cruel". If you read that thread it was a number of touchy responders who started throwing the word abuse around.

[onagar]

I'm with 1308. Technically cruel/abusive might be correct, but it's often used in a way that suggests the stronger meaning.

Even if we disagree with someone's actions it's important to distinguish between something well intended and and something intended to be cruel/abusive. I don't think people always do keep those seperate.

So for example smacking if someone considers that the correct method is different from someone who has a bad day in work and beats up their kids. You're entitled to think both are wrong, but the intent is very different.

[Roseability]

Your probably right. I am 40 weeks pregnant and very hormonal! Good debate though

[barnsleybelle]

I think your being a bit dramatic to say that severe abuse is being undermined.
It's simple... there are different levels, and not one person on here is undermining severe abuse.

Ok, so have you never heard or uttered the word cruel in a mild context.

Such as, when my ds is teasing his little sister i might say "oh don't be cruel"..

You have taken this all out of context.

[MIAonline]

That should be neither would be wrong

[MIAonline]

1308, you have answered your own question with saying 'Cruel has a broad definition 'to cause suffering'

The fact that it has such a broad definition means that no one is in the wrong here, you would be right to use it in its extreme form and another person would be right to use it ia milder scenario. Neither would be right.

You should meet my Auntie who thought it was cruel that I wouldn't let my 6month old eat an easter egg. And she was very serious too

[1308]

undetected

[1308]

Where do we draw the line? Cruel has a broad definition 'to cause suffering'

So if you don't breastfeed are you cruel because your child might catch more infections?

If you let your child watch too much television are you cruel, because it could affect their development and they may not do as well at school?

If you let your child have sweets and they get tooth decay, you have caused suffering and hence you are cruel

I just worry that real abuse is undermined. I find it strange the things that get labelled as cruel and abusive here and yet children are killed through horrific cruelty and abuse which goes

[barnsleybelle]

1308... read all my posts. I have actually said i shout at my dc's... have also admitted that it's cruel when i do. I have not once said that i don't shout or get angry at my children.
Re adults remembering being smacked at my reference was to a poster who claimed their dh "laughs" when he remembers being swiped at.

I do shout but i do not smack. I am not anti-smacking so please lets not start a debate about that, it's just not for me or my family.

[barnsleybelle]

1308...Sunburnt actually said she thought it was cruel not abusive from what i remember of the thread. Looking at the dictionary definition of "cruel" it actually is.

[1308]

barnsleybelle - I don't rememeber being smacked or shouted at. My mother was emotionally detached who would just turn round and say something cruel like 'I hate you and wish you had never been born'

If a mother never shouts or gets angry, is this normal for a child? I would never, never say something like that to my DS but as I have said I have had moments of anger. Maybe he will remember this and resent me. I admire those mumsnetters who have never shouted or got angry at their child. I don't know how you do it

[1308]

I did not intend to be dismissive or rude sunburntats. I don't want to be wrong or right or dismissive of people's unhappy memories. I actually agree with you, that dragging a child along at a pace which is too fast for them could be distressing for the child.

However if I saw someone doing that in a snapshot moment, I wouldn't automatically label them as a child abuser