To be concerned that ex thinks it's OK to leave DS (nearly 5) at home with walkie talkie, while he's at pub 150 yards away?

[Scrumplet]

God, just typing it makes it sound ludicrous to me.

Ex and I clashed on this some time ago when we were together, when he was having a particularly 'exuberant', can-do phase, and bought the walkie talkies with a view to using them so we could have nights out aplenty in the nearby pub. I said no way - what if there was a fire, or a power cut? Our voices on the end of a walkie talkie [which DS might forget how to use] would be of little comfort.

This issue was buried, but came up again recently after XP used the walkie talkies in a fun game with DS. He mentioned the pub discussion again, and I was shocked to learn that he still thinks this would have been OK. I asked him to promise not to use the walkie talkies in this way when he has DS in his care. He looked at me as though I'm a control freak, but agreed, and said we simply have different views on this.

Am I indeed going mad/being controlling, or is the idea of leaving a five-year-old at home alone, connected to his parent at the local pub via walkie talkie, absurd and utterly irresponsible?

[SolidGoldBrass]

Well done, Scrumplet. I do appreciate that it's difficult for you because you percieve your XP as mentally ill rather than simply selfish and abusive (and you are probably right) but that doesn't mean he's got free rein to do what he wants at DS' expense. He will undoubtedly piss and moan at you over this but you haven't said anything which suggests he is an actual danger to you ie that he might become physically aggressive, so really, just shrug it off. It's his problem.

[Scrumplet]

Solid, thanks. Obviously need to toughen up. In the habit of taking his crap - working on getting out of it.

posh, ex used drugs before access time with DS only the once, and arrived half-asleep with pupils dilated. Needless to say, I hung around and told him not to let this happen again. It hasn't.

FBG, I think he will discuss it, yes. And DS is old enough to tell me he'd been left, so ex would be daft to renege on his promise. He does go out aplenty when he isn't with DS; I'm talking about if he's invited to something close by when he has DS. He could just say no, but if feeling hyper-sociable (which comes with a high), would struggle to do this.

Have spoken with NSPCC. Their take on it is that it's unacceptable, no matter how close by he'd be. Ex risks prosecution for wilful neglect, should something happen to DS while he's out. Ex is living temporarily with his mum. NSPCC suggest I speak to her and get her on board, vigilence-wise (she thinks the sun shines out of ex's arse, so not sure how effective this would be). They have said that if I cannot get through to him and/or have considerable doubts about his capacity to take good care of DS, I should contact a children and families lawyer and get a contact order in place, preventing overnight access. They also endorsed the idea of writing to his psychiatrist.

So I will be letting ex know, in writing, that it's not on, end of story, and what the potential consequences would be. And I will be writing to his psychiatrist and keeping an eye on how he's faring.

[FabulousBakerGirl]

Do you seriously believe that he will discuss it with you first before he decides to leave his child alone while he goes out drinking, now he knows you don't agree?

Assuming his child isn't with him full time, why can't he go out drinking on the nights he doesn't have access?

[poshsinglemum]

If I were you i'd stop access until he wises up. He's been using drugs around your son? Sack him!

[SolidGoldBrass]

Scrumplet, I think you have to acknowledge that his feelings and his opinions of you are not that important. If he whines and moans and says you're being mean to him, so fucking what?

[barnsleybelle]

Scrumplet.. exactly, everyone seems to talk about the dangers to the child left alone, but forgets about the fact that something could happen to the parent who leaves that child alone.

i would never contemplate it for a child so young. It's just not worth it.

[Scrumplet]

barnsleybelle, that's a tragic story. I don't think it's occurred to ex that, if he popped out, something could happen to him - not just DS.

shineon, I was trying to be reasonable. To have an adult discussion (the fateful "chat") about it. I think reasonableness just doesn't work though, does it? Ex interprets it as controlling on my part, an intolerance for his different ways of doing things - which I suppose isn't altogether untrue in this context - and becomes defensive. It's a bit rock and hard place: if I said to him, "You will not be leaving DS at home alone under any circumstances without the polic/SS becoming involved," he would be doubly arsy to deal with. I can hear it now: "This is another reason why we're not together: you talk to me as if I'm a child!"

Still, he knows my views on it, and I don't believe he'll do it.

[Scrumplet]

dittany, his take on this is that he'd explain it to DS first, train him up over a period of time with using the walkie talkies, etc. I reminded him that DS was once so distraught he threw up, when he'd woken up and couldn't find us because we were in the front garden sorting something to do with the car. And a child who's woken up mid-sleep is disorientated and irrational - I doubt he'd calmly remember, "Oh yes, Dad isn't here. I need to press this button here and summon him." I hate the idea, and am concerned that he'd even consider it, TBH - stuff all the trying-to-ease-DS-into-it rationale. Sadly, I think ex thinks I'm being unreasonable, neurotic, in the face of his apparent reasonableness.

He has said he will not be pursuing this "because I'm obviously so uncomfortable with it". I have no other reason at the moment (not counting his last elevated phase of about 18 months ago) to believe him to be ill-equipped to look after DS responsibly, right now. I will write to his psychiatrist, expressing my concerns, and speak to the NSPCC tomorrow.

Thanks for posts.

[barnsleybelle]

Funnily enough i told a story on another thread recently about a colleague of mine who left her 4 yr old ds whilst she went out for calpol. she had an accident on what should have been a 6 min round trip and ended up unconcious with an head injury. Her ds was found by a neighbour the next morning.

someone on this thread actually said that it would be worse to drag a sick child to the shop!!!! Honestly!

[epithet]

Can't link because it was a while back, but a couple were prosecuted or similar for doing this while staying at a hotel.

It's child neglect, and would be treated as such by police/SS.

I will be interested to see what NSPCC have to say.

[Scrumplet]

Thanks, MummyDragon. No more joy with NSPCC - visitors after playdate, so couldn't call again. Appreciate your empathy. It is an unusual situation WRT ex's changing mental health. Good to know my instincts are sound, though.

Have spoken with ex this evening, and his take on things is this (paraphrasing): "I can't forsee any situation in the near future when I'd consider using the walkie talkies this way. I do think it would be OK to use them when having a glass of wine with neighbours (25-50 yards down the drive), and possibly at the pub (150 yards), but I'm not sure about that one. I'd explain the situation to DS first, make sure he could use them competently and that he knew I was planning to pop out. And because I can see it's so important to you, I'd speak to you first any time I wanted to use them."

See, he can sound so reasonable and yet his idea still be fundamentally wrong, IYSWIM.

I explained that I don't want him to leave DS in the house alone full-stop, even if he is only down the drive at a neighbour's. He said that we simply view this slightly differently, and that he respects my opinion and I should respect his, and that my inability to respect his having a different opinion to me was one of the reasons we separated. I said it would be illegal to leave DS alone in the house. He said, "So do you stick to 70mph on the motorway?"

Sigh. That was a fun chat. (shineon, maybe that was the problem - we had a chat. ) These chats often end with him seeming like the good guy and me the unreasonable one, which is a headfuck. But I feel confident he won't be using the walkie talkies this way any time soon, and if he planned to, would speak to me first. And I will simply say no.

[FabulousBakerGirl]

YABU to be concerned.

You should be very and make it clear what will happen if he leaves your child alone to go to the pub.

[MummyDragon]

Scrumplet have just found this thread - have you had any more joy getting through to the NSPCC?

"However, without a diagnosis to pin this behaviour on (is it bipolar? BPD? Something or nothing else? Am I just being paranoid?), I can't very well say, "I think you're a bit too animated/manic/reckless at the moment to look after DS. Decided." Or can I?"

• YES YOU CAN. Your DS's safety has to be paramount. Don't doubt yourself; you have explained why you do this, and I totally understand, so I am going to say it again: don't doubt yourself. Your instincts are 100% correct!

Sorry you have to worry about this, and sorry for your ex (and you) too as this can't be much fun for any of you.

[Scrumplet]

Thanks for further replies. Have tried NSPCC a few times - lines busy. Will try again later in day, after imminent playdate over.

edam, will write to the psychiatrist overseeing ex. The depressed extreme would be little fun for DS, but it is the more manic phases which concern me, responsibility-wise, and I'm trying to deduce if this is where we're heading. At these times, ex has also felt invincible, and some of his ideas WRT looking after DS have concerned me - and yet he is his most unreasonable, arrogant, patronising and disrespectful with me at these times too, which is where the emotional 'abuse' element kicks in: I cannot get through to him that some of his ideas seem plain reckless. I will write about this, as you suggest, within the framework of Every Child Matters. I know ex is due to stop being seen in the later summer, if he seems OK to this consultant during a ten-minute visit . I could suggest he check in with him for longer.

I realise there are mums on here who have bipolar, and who are their children's primary carers, so unsupervised contact/residency is obviously possible and, if it is deemed safe, to be encouraged, surely.

shineon, when what I would consider to be well, my ex is very much like yours in caring for DS. He would never intentionally harm him - he's a great dad. Gald yours is too.

at mania being helpful when trying to handle 36-hour shifts - but would it be fair of me to think that someone who has bipolar should be allowed to work in a profession like medicine only when well?

[simplesusan]

Haven't read all the replies but
YANBU.

I would not leave a 4 year old child _or a much older one for that matter- in his care again.

Seek legal advice and stop unsupervised access would be my reaction.

I do not believe that a court of law would deem him fit to be in charge of your child. Why does he leave him alone? Surely if he was that desperate to see his child he would actually want to be with him and not F off to the bloody pub.

Anything could happen and let's face it who in their right mind believes that a child that age wants to be left alone??????
Sorry no I would not let him go again.

[edam]

Perhaps mention the Every Child Matters guidelines when you write to health professional guy, see Dept for Children Schools and Families website - health profs have a duty to your son as well as your ex.

[edam]

Oh, and yes, do write to mental health professional - they SHOULD take into account any children who may be affected by an adult with mental health problems but in practice rarely do. It's a child protection issue but health often don't think of it in those terms and adult SS don't talk to children's etc. etc. Not that I am suggesting child protection as in you doing anything wrong, just that health professionals should be alert for the needs of any children around a parent/carer with mental health problems.

[edam]

Glad you are calling NSPCC, Scrumplet, hope they can help.

Good friend of ours is bipolar (no kids) and there is no way I'd leave ds with him on his own when he's at either extreme, tbh. He's lovely but just doesn't 'get' the normal rules of everyday life when he's manic. He's superman, can do anything, climb any mountain, and dangerous stuff is (apparently) really fun!

I once interviewed a bunch of mad doctors - their description - all of whom were bipolar. Was a little bit scary being in a room full of them as their sense of humour/common understanding was so out of line with normality. Although apparently manic phase is brilliant when you are a junior doc - this was in the days when they had to work 36 hour shifts.

[Scrumplet]

Read thread, ssd.