to get DP to go round to a bully's house, get his dad out and...

[Parentbeater]

A HORRIBLE boy is bullying my nephew. Making his life a misery. Dp is no thug but he's hard. Is it wrong for my DP to go round his house, make the boy get his dad and tell the boy infront of his dad:

'Everytime you hit my nephew, I'm going to come round here and hit your dad.'

I very much doubt the kid will hit my nephew again, so no need for adult violence overall..

...so how wrong is this.. on a scale of 1-10.

10 being absolutely disgraceful

1 being the best bloody solution you've ever heared and you think you're going to try it yourself lol

[JustForABitofFun]

So you teach kids that the way to stop bullying is by bullying?

[AngeloMysterioso]

Seriously? How did you even find this thread from 14 AND A HALF YEARS AGO

[JudgeRudy]

Absolutely unreasonable and probably actiionably/illegal.
I'm calling a sort of reverse on this one. You're husbands said he's going round and you've said no.
By the way, it wouldn't work!

[PartySock]

I think it's not at all UR to want to do it.
It's quite UR to actually do it.
But Understand the sentiment.

[GerronBuzanDoThaWomwok]

I would be knocking at their door and explaining very quietly that this was their first and only warning-and what would happen if this were to continue.

[kerryk]

its amazing what lengths you will be prepared to go to in order to protect your children.

my gran (tiny litle thing in her late 70's who would not hurt a fly) loves telling the tell of the school bully who made my mums life hell and would not let any other children play with her.

my gran went up to her in the playground one day and whispered in the girls ear that next time she tried to hurt my mum she would cut both her pigtails of, all the time she said this she was pocking the girl in the ribs in time with her tone of voice

[JodieG1]

10

[mayorquimby]

of course it's ok to want to do it, but to take any such action would just validate the other childs bullying by showing him that it is ok to use violence or threats to get what you want if you are bigger than someone else.

[Ivegotaheadache]

If a child of mine was being bullied (I know that rage believe me) my priority is to stop the bullying and protect my own child.
I'm sorry Little Bella but if a particular child is being a bully, then that child is going to answer for it.
If I couldn't get any joy from the school, then I would do whatever it took to make sure my child was safe, and if that means going to see the parents then so be it (obviously I'm not threatening violence or anything here!).

No, it may not address the institutional issues that facilitate the bullying but if my child were being bullied, then the institutiuonal issues will have to wait until I have protected my child from being bullied by that particular person.

[LittleBella]

Oh well. Obviously cross-posted with you Squilly, I'm not quite sure what blanket statement about adults expressing rage against a child being something I find quite frightening, you are so offended by.

But by all means flounce if you choose. Good night. And sorry my arguments have pissed you off, your arguments have kind of pissed me off too because I perceived them as you attempting to take the moral high ground because you were bullied at school and therefore have some kind of special insight. That could also be described as verbal bullying, but I wouldn't dream of attributing such an unpleasant motive to an internet stranger. Just because I was bullied, doesn't mean I think everyone who disagrees with me is trying to bully me and I'm sorry you think I was trying to do that to you. I just thought I was arguing about an issue.

[LittleBella]

Oh gawd I am not arguing that there is a simple excuse for bullying. All I am arguing, is that raging at a child about doing it, is an inappropriate response from an adult. I really don't see why that is a controversial statement in a sane world.

It also doesn't address the institutional issues that facilitate the practice of bullying. Honing in on individual children, whether they are plain nasty or victims of abuse themselves, doesn't address the problem that schools and workplaces are organised in a way which appears to me to encourage bullying. None of which militates against expecting individual bullies to take responsiblity for their behaviour, make amends, etc.

Squilly btw I hope you don't think I'm in any way trivialising your experience of bullying, I know how emotional a subject it is and I know how damaging it is. A couple of years ago I phoned a radio show which dealt with the subject and even though the bullying I'd experienced had happened years previously, when I was talking to the researcher I broke down in tears half way through what I wanted to say and realised I wouldn't be able to go on the show. I hadn't realised how strongly affected I still was by it. So please don't think for a moment that I'm not listening to you or dismissing your arguments, I am just trying to argue a case which I feel is being slightly distorted by this absurd accusation that I am making excuses for bullying. I most emphatically am not, I just don't think this issue is black and white.

[Mamazon]

why is it the dad's fault that the boy hits your nephew?

if yoru nephew hits someone is it ok for the poor childs mother to comne round and give you a slap?

and speaking as someone who lost a very dear friend because he dared to ask for his son's football back..i really wouldn't advise it.

[squilly]

No...and you don't know everything either Littlebella. You're being patronising and a bit of a verbal bully and that's totally uncalled for.

We're all entitled to our views and they're often based on our experiences. YOU don't have any gateway to truth either. Just your opinions, which you're entitled to. But don't think you can come over all superior with me.

You can't make blanket statements about people expressing rage at a child being unreasonable and expect people not to refute it.

I think perhaps I'll step away from this one as you clearly know all the answers and everyone else (or perhaps it's just me) is talking tosh.

I no longer participate in dialogue with people who won't listen to others. I had enough of that as a child. As an adult I know when to walk away. I don't have to accept bullying of any kind any more. So with that [flounce emoticon]

[edam]

Littlebella, I think your argument that 'most' bullies are acting that way because they are suffering in some manner is a rather sweeping statement. I don't know of any stats that say most bullies are actually victims of circumstance. Some children, like some adults, are unpleasant and act in an unpleasant manner, because they can.

FWIW, I saw a lot of bullying throughout my own schooldays, and was bullied myself. Only one of the bullies I came across was having a hard time at home, as far as I know. (And I did try to help her, as far as I could age 9.) Know lots of other people who were having a very hard time who didn't bully anyone else. I don't think there's a simple excuse for bullying.

[LittleBella]

Although I hope it's not another thread, I'm hoping the problem is solved when he goes back in September.

Which btw OP, is another straw to cling to? Things can change an awful lot during school holidays.

[LittleBella]

TBH I don't think it's worth addressing the issues with the parents first Quattrocento. Most of the bullies I've come across would have parents who would say things along the lines of "boys will be boys" "gotta stand up for themselves" "sort it out among themselves" etc. Which of course is right when it's just normal childhood disagreement, but these particular people simply don't understand when the line is crossed into bullying. And often if they do, their response is to bully their children more, not to work towards solving the problem.

Squilly you don't have some kind of gateway to the truth about this issue just because you were bullied as a child. So was I, so was my brother (who I can genuinely say has had his whole bloody life affected by it, I honestly don't think it's overstating the case to believe that the horrific bullying he endured in his teens played a part in his subsequent depression and alcoholism) but I still don't think expressing rage at a child (which I never accused you of doing btw so I don't know why you're bothering to refute it), is a constructive adult response.

As for your well-grounded dislike of bullies, I don't really know what you mean by that. All of us, in different circumstances, can either be bullies or victims of bullies. I hope I've never been the former (I have definitely been the latter, both at school and in the workplace), but I don't cut them off as some kind of "other". Given the right circumstances, even decent, nice people can become bullies / part of the mob. I don't think it's helpful to pretend they have different instincts/ behaviour to normal people. As you rightly point out, in some instances they are normal people. Ringleaders OTOH, usually have extra "ishoos" though not always, of course, I agree with you there.

I still haven't got to the bottom of what is going on with DS tbh and it's an almost impossible task to get information out of him or the school. It seems to have been ongoing for some time and everyone is in denial about it. But anyway, that's another thread maybe some day.

[squilly]

I think the psychological scars are the ones that don't ever heal really.

Having said that, I think that being bullied made me much stronger in my late teens. It made me more bloody minded and a bit more resillient perhaps. I still, however, have a deep seated fear that people don't like me (and I come on Mumsnet...how perverse is that!?! ).

Seriously, though, despite a very confident persona in most aspects of life, I often have phases where I don't think people like me much. And I do think I could have achieved more, had I not been bullied. My confidence wasn't great anyway thanks to treatment at home and a short period of abuse by a neighbour, but you get to a stage where you either get on with life or give up.

I hope that the OP's nephew manages to get through this in one piece (which lets face it, is the most worrying aspect of bullying in todays society) and that the situation gets resolved somehow.

[Quattrocento]

I think that being bullied can damage and hurt children more than we realise. DH still bears the literal and metaphorical scars from childhood bullying.

Do I think you should address the parents with the issue? Yes, but probably not with fists first.

[squilly]

I was bullied as a child pretty relentlessly from the age of 13 onwards. Made me suicidal, so I know bullying from the receiving side of the equation. Hence my desire not to excuse bullies in any way, which your initial post certainly seemed to do. If that wasn't the intent, then perhaps that's my misunderstanding. It was perhaps the statement that most bullies are just reacting to being bullied at home. This isn't always the case...but then perhaps our experiences in this regard have been very different.

In terms of expressions of primal rage against children, I never expressed any rage at any child. I do, however, think that the parents of the child in the OP need to be made aware of and responsible for the situation. That way, perhaps there's some chance of resolution.

I had assumed, as had most of the other people on this post, I'm sure, that the the OP was kidding when she said about her DP going round and threatening the bully's dad.

And it's an urge I certainly understand having endured 3 years of pushing and shoving that finally ended when I got pushed down the stairs by several of my class mates.

These children were not from bad homes. As Frodosgirl points out...not all bullies are. They were just arrogant, stuck up and got caught up in thuggish, gang-type behaviour.

I was the one from a rough background, laced with physical abuse, but I, strangely enough, felt no need to bully others. And these children were all 'well to do'...from the nice/privately owned houses. Hence their 'unexpressable rage' at my doing well and taking the valuable top class place of their equally well to do, but unfortunately somewhat dim, friends!

The results, regardless of any intent, was almost fatal. Regardless of this, I have no rage, but just rather well grounded dislike for bullies.

I hope, by the way, that you managed to sort out the problem with your own child. It's the most unpleasant situation to be in and I can truly empathise...

[LittleBella]

Oh totally agree FG, it would be simplistic to assert that. But I didn't. I was careful to say "most", not "all".
Depending on age, some bullying is about normal kid's power play and flexing muscles. Which if not reined in, goes too far. Which is why the supervising adults really need to be aware of the different dynamics.

What always troubles me, is how rife bullying is in schools, how many anti-bullying (lip-service) policies schools have, and yet how ineffective they seem to be in so many schools. IMO it really isn't generally dealt with or pre-empted effectively and yet there's been an awareness of the problem as a real problem, not just a "stand up for yerself, boy" thing, for at least 20 years. Most schools still haven't got a handle on it to my mind and I suspect there's something in the way we organise our institutions that encourages it. (After all, workplace bullying is only now being acknowledged as a real phenomenon and problem.)

[FrodosGirl]

Would like to add, the child that was bullying DS, was not from a bad home and the punishments he got from parents were not violent. Also his two brothers were nice to ds. Not all bullyies come from bad backgrounds.

[LittleBella]

And I am the mother of a child who has been bullied btw, so am very familiar with the old primal rage.

[LittleBella]

I'm not excusing kids who hurt others, Squilly, and I'm perfectly aware that the OP is not talking about hurting the child and also that she is initiating a discussion rather than proposing a serious solution.

I just think expressions of primal rage against children are rather frightening and not very constructive, however understandable.

I am also astonished by your lack of insight into bullies when you assert that threatening a bullying adult with violence would stop him bullying his child. Er, no, it would make him punish him even more. And so the child might stop bullying your child (hurrah!) but he would go on to bully someone else's (boo!)

I really don't know where you can get from my post that I want to excuse bullying. I just don't think the way to stop it is by counter-bullying.