To tell my managers exactly what I think about this colleague?

[pawpawgingins]

I’ve been working in my company for nearly 2 years, started at a junior position and was already promoted to a senior position.
I’m already looking for and interviewing other jobs as I feel that I’m outgrowing my role and have the ability to earn more somewhere else.

So, today there was a meeting with the top leadership and they wanted to offer me another promotion but with the caveat - I’d have to manage and mentor a colleague who is quite frankly a nightmare and everyone avoids.
For the record I have tried helping this colleague many times but I gave up as they seldom get anything right, make a mess of everything, don’t follow procedures and processes correctly and wastes a lot of time. They usually make zero sense in their speaking and ends up confusing everyone else. They contribute very little.

So I told leadership that if the condition of me getting promoted is to manage/mentor/monitor this one person, then I’d rather leave.
They asked me to explain why and I asked them if they wanted me to tell what I think/feel or be politically correct?

They asked me to say what I think/feel (and I know I shouldn’t have) but on top of everything else I already explained above, I said:

• I don’t trust the person
• I believe they lie and backstab (have evidence)
• They cover up mistakes making it much harder to fix it down the line (have evidence)
• I believe they are lazy and unreliable
• I’d be un constant high alert and stress if they were to touch my projects

Leadership was not surprised by hearing it and also by this coming from me as they know I’m straightforward

(yes I’ve been asked if I’m autistic, I don’t know and don’t need to know)

I will hear from HR about the promotion by the end of the week.

[MartinsSpareCalculator]

What's your question? Managers usually don't get to only manage people who are easy. If you gave me that ultimatum I'd wish you all the best in your search for a role elsewhere, as you'd effectively be telling me you can't manage difficult people, and that isn't what I look for in a leader.

I also think you have a bit too much ego.

Unsure what autism has to do with this. But as you brought it up, I have ASD and wouldn't dream of conducting myself as you have.

[neverknowinglyunreasonable]

Good luck with future job interviews....

"Can you tell me about a time you successfully managed difficult behaviours?"

"No, I quit instead"

This could be a case of better the devil you know. There could be difficult people to manage anywhere you go, a managers job is to manage them.

[Birch101]

To be honest I feel the same way about one of my colleagues purely because if it was down to me they would have been fired by now so the idea of managing someone but not being able to fire them if they were not doing the job would be too much.

Not all upward positions involve people management and a good company should support you in people management anyway so you need to make sure your manager supported you

Good luck, hopefully they'll realise that by keeping a poor worker they might lose a good one

[pawpawgingins]

However the jobs I’m applying for I will have the same role, higher salary and not being responsible for managing/mentoring anyone.
I see this as a cheeky…my employer is trying to give me the tricky person that nobody above me wants either.

They will not promote me to a manager position - they will promote me one step above my own position.

[pawpawgingins]

@MartinsSpareCalculator

What's your question? Managers usually don't get to only manage people who are easy. If you gave me that ultimatum I'd wish you all the best in your search for a role elsewhere, as you'd effectively be telling me you can't manage difficult people, and that isn't what I look for in a leader.

I also think you have a bit too much ego.

Unsure what autism has to do with this. But as you brought it up, I have ASD and wouldn't dream of conducting myself as you have.

It is not a manager position

[LlynTegid]

Good on you for telling the truth and I hope that it in a small way contributes to the company ultimately getting rid of him or her.

[pawpawgingins]

@Birch101

To be honest I feel the same way about one of my colleagues purely because if it was down to me they would have been fired by now so the idea of managing someone but not being able to fire them if they were not doing the job would be too much.

Not all upward positions involve people management and a good company should support you in people management anyway so you need to make sure your manager supported you

Good luck, hopefully they'll realise that by keeping a poor worker they might lose a good one

Exactly this

I’m not leaving because of the poor worker as I can keep my distance

But I know I’m working above my paygrade and can do better elsewhere

However if the only way they will retain me is if I ‘play’ manager to the colleague nobody else wants to manage - not even their own manager - than I should I?

It is not even a managerial role

[Someonescatmum]

I think managing or mentoring this person would be good experience for you, as you can show you can tackle negative behaviours and support others to deliver quality work.

They see potential in you, and having this opportunity will help you in the future. There is real merit in taking this offer seriously.

I agree your response is nothing to do with being autistic.

[pawpawgingins]

@Someonescatmum

I think managing or mentoring this person would be good experience for you, as you can show you can tackle negative behaviours and support others to deliver quality work.

They see potential in you, and having this opportunity will help you in the future. There is real merit in taking this offer seriously.

I agree your response is nothing to do with being autistic.

Believe me I tried my best - it is complicated as the person can’t be trusted - is not only a matter of performance, it is about character and personality

Also I mentioned autism because almost in all my threads posters ask me this.

[ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees]

You handled the suggestion very poorly and seem to have skipped over the art of negotiation.

It would have been better to ask, how would you see that working? Advise that you had made several attempts in the past, discussed the challenges, asked about how you would be measured on it, ask if a performance improvement plan would be an option if this colleague failed to show signs of improvement etc?

There are ways of telling them that it wouldn't be a suitable arrangement without refusing to do it.

I wouldn't promote someone who responded like you did.

[FakeMiddleton]

If I was someone else who worked at that company, I'd be THRILLED you said what you said.

This one bad apple just needs to get sacked and make everyone else's lives easier, and the company's profits bigger.

ISWYM re autism - blunt, no filter etc etc.

[Saintmariesleuth]

I think your current workplace is being very cheeky. I would be concerned that if this colleague is not to be crap, lazy, bad attitude with a hoarde of evidence to back up these claims, why are they still employed there? Either the process doesn't allow any proper action to be taken, which is going to be frustrating f, time consuming and stressful for you, or your managers can't or won't address these issues properly. Neither of these are a good option for you.

On the flip side, if you worded your reply in the interview exactly the as you did in your OP, then you were unprofessional. You should have stuck to factual information about colleague (e.g they have not been truthful about the status of projects...on project x, they told me that task A had been completed in November, but it wasn't and this delayed the project by 4 weeks..I can show you can email claiming they had done the task, but you can see on the spreadsheet that it wasn't).

I would wait and see what HR say this week, and go from there

[pawpawgingins]

@ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees

You handled the suggestion very poorly and seem to have skipped over the art of negotiation.

It would have been better to ask, how would you see that working? Advise that you had made several attempts in the past, discussed the challenges, asked about how you would be measured on it, ask if a performance improvement plan would be an option if this colleague failed to show signs of improvement etc?

There are ways of telling them that it wouldn't be a suitable arrangement without refusing to do it.

I wouldn't promote someone who responded like you did.

They know - everyone knows.
Everyone tried.

I was buddied up with this person after 2 colleagues resigned because of them.

I tried. Then I gave up stating in more diplomatic terms that working with this person was affecting my performance and mental health

Now Leadership tried again as a condition to my next promotion

No way

[Saintmariesleuth]

I've just seen your updates- have I understood that you would not actually be this person's line manager, you'd be acting up as a development opportunity?

If so, I'd be giving this a wide berth. Let them either offer a promotion that doesn't in any way involve managing this person or refuse the promotion, stay in your current role and interview elsewhere. This is looking more like an attempt to palm off hard work and dress it up as a ' development opportunity'

[User8ikr]

@pawpawgingins looking for better fits in other companies is the right thing I’d say - I long preferred specialist non managerial roles as I hated people management, there are always issues like this. I had to get two people made
redundant and even though it was the right thhhg to do job wise I still, many years later, feel bad about it. Can you progress to where you want to without managing?

tbh, the other option is to really go for broke, try and get out of first line management into senior management as fast as possible.

[pawpawgingins]

@Saintmariesleuth

I've just seen your updates- have I understood that you would not actually be this person's line manager, you'd be acting up as a development opportunity?

If so, I'd be giving this a wide berth. Let them either offer a promotion that doesn't in any way involve managing this person or refuse the promotion, stay in your current role and interview elsewhere. This is looking more like an attempt to palm off hard work and dress it up as a ' development opportunity'

Yep

This colleague already have a line manager who just dont have the time and patience to deal with them and gives them very simple tasks (that they still get wrong)

So because I do quite well and leadership needs someone to train and develop the colleague, they are trying to insert this responsibility in the role. So officially on paper I’d not line manage but in real terms I would have to.

Fc this

[User8ikr]

I do wonder why they aren’t working with HR to get this person managed out of the business - have you offered to do that?

[pawpawgingins]

@User8ikr

@pawpawgingins looking for better fits in other companies is the right thing I’d say - I long preferred specialist non managerial roles as I hated people management, there are always issues like this. I had to get two people made
redundant and even though it was the right thhhg to do job wise I still, many years later, feel bad about it. Can you progress to where you want to without managing?

tbh, the other option is to really go for broke, try and get out of first line management into senior management as fast as possible.

I feel exactly like you - life is too short to be managing people and I have the possibility to grow and earn loads without ever taking a manager’s role

[Saintmariesleuth]

Defintely do not do this. The colleague has an ineffectual manager. It doesn't need to become your problem (more than it already is, anyway).

As this issue is sitting unresolved, and from the sounds of it poorly managed, I'd also be considering whether this company is actually competent to mentor and develop you as a manager. If their own manager is lacking time to manage a direct report, I can't see where time will magically appear from to support you properly

[User8ikr]

If you can avoid it, avoid it - managing people is shit. I felt like it was constant attrition, the good performers want your job, are always trying to go over your head, the poor performers make your life miserable playing games with you to shirk, and if you’re lucky, you get one or two people who just do the job.

I found it all incredibly wearing mentally and quit managing and went back to specialist track which frankly, was relaxing.

[Speedweed]

If they don't give you the official power to hire/fire/appraise this person, you'll fail no matter how accomplished a manager you might be. I learnt this the hard way (which resulted in my exit from the company, not the two terrible people I was supposedly 'managing' without any actual managerial authority, and they both knew it). You cant manage without that authority.

[Daffidale]

You might get more constructive advice posting in Work

I actually think you handled this pretty well
You showed you are frank and honest, and can back up your assessment with evidence

You kept it focused on things that affect the quality of the work and ability to them and others to do their jobs

It’s interesting that they didn’t dispute your assessment. IMO that shows good judgement on your part. (And you did ask if they wanted you to tel them it straight.)
Having a challenging employee as your first experience of managing/mentoring is very challenging and risks setting you up to fail

The only conditions under which you should do this I think is
a) if you will get management training and mentoring yourself to help you with managing this difficult person (this will benefit you in future)
b) the person is put on a formal performance improvement plan with HR support for you and their LM (that way there is a formal route to managing this person out if they don’t improvement)

ps the personality and character traits you describe are performance issues here. They are affecting the quality of work and ability of this person to properly perform their duties.

[tensmum1964]

@neverknowinglyunreasonable

Good luck with future job interviews....

"Can you tell me about a time you successfully managed difficult behaviours?"

"No, I quit instead"

This could be a case of better the devil you know. There could be difficult people to manage anywhere you go, a managers job is to manage them.

I would argue that a good managers job, is to manage them out. Why should difficult and by the sound of it, incompetent people be allowed to keep working without repercussions. Also OP, I would have done exactly the same. I speak as someone in a previous management role who inherited more than one awful employee largely because previous managers had been unable or unwilling to challenge them. It wasn't worth the stress and money.

[pawpawgingins]

@Daffidale

You might get more constructive advice posting in Work

I actually think you handled this pretty well
You showed you are frank and honest, and can back up your assessment with evidence

You kept it focused on things that affect the quality of the work and ability to them and others to do their jobs

It’s interesting that they didn’t dispute your assessment. IMO that shows good judgement on your part. (And you did ask if they wanted you to tel them it straight.)
Having a challenging employee as your first experience of managing/mentoring is very challenging and risks setting you up to fail

The only conditions under which you should do this I think is
a) if you will get management training and mentoring yourself to help you with managing this difficult person (this will benefit you in future)
b) the person is put on a formal performance improvement plan with HR support for you and their LM (that way there is a formal route to managing this person out if they don’t improvement)

ps the personality and character traits you describe are performance issues here. They are affecting the quality of work and ability of this person to properly perform their duties.

Thank you.
By performance issues I was thinking along the lines of not be capable of doing the job or using the tools we have / understanding the basics (which applies to a certain degree with no improvement)

Add this terrible stakeholder managements and personal flaws - it is crazy this person is even there

[FakeMiddleton]

Agree with @tensmum1964 - we've all had an ineffective manager who pussyfooted around some weak link who just pissed off all the hard workers in the team. That kind of rotten apple is the catalyst for poor morale and good people leaving.

Why should the good workers live a shit life for one bad actor? I'd welcome a manager who cut the toxic fat.