To take a pay cut ?

[LanaL]

Posting here mainly for traffic .

I currently work as a supply teacher ( still an ECT so can only do this for 5 years ) . Hate teaching , to the point a permanent job almost caused a break down . The thought of going back into it fills me with fear , anxiety and dread . Can’t go back to uni to retrain I’m almost 40 and spent a long time training . It is not fair to go back to studying after my husband supported us for 5 years . I have a PGCE but by degree is in Education and Family studies .

We have debt and I know I need to be bringing in money . I have seen a job ( nothing to say I would get it ) in the civil service and don’t know if to apply , or apply for a full time teaching position or stick supply for a bit longer . Here are my options :

Currently as a supply I can take home £500 per week if I work every day, it doesn’t always work this way. Currently in a full time , long term so guaranteed the £500 per week until end of term , aside from a bank holiday and teacher day coming up , plus May half term. Then the 6 weeks holidays comes . In school holidays I work part time at a holiday club . I do 2 days usually - very long days, low pay . Usually take home £600 - £700 for the whole 6 weeks , paid at the end . If we go away then I’ll have that week off . Sometimes get UC but not much due to husbands wage as for eg in a 5 week assessment period I would have taken home £2500. Usually get some in the holidays but it’s not something to rely of due to dates etc . I like to have some of the holidays off with the kids although I have options if I needed to work more, I would never have time off with them or in general as both jobs are 0 hours so no holiday or sick pay. This holiday club isn’t open at Xmas so that is a struggle . I do need/ want some time off in the holidays with the kids .

I could get a permanent teaching job easily I know that . That would be £1900 ish take home . That’s every month , salaried . However - I know this will have a detrimental effect on my mental health and I can’t stand the thought of doing it . But I do know I need to bring in a proper wage - we have a lot of debt and high living costs ( not fun things , bills etc , rent is v high ) . I would be off in the holidays . But off doesn’t mean not working as many teachers know . Would get no UC .

Finally , I have seen a civil service job - on the phones HMRC . This is a role that I have skills for ( my part time job before teaching was customer service but not in the CS - it was phone based . I did it in 2 different companies over a period of 17 years . This job asks for no experience , full training given .) I know it’s competitive but it’s just a thought right now . The take home would be around £1650 . Salaried so every month . I may get around £300 UC but this wouldn’t be every month and depends on the weeks in an assessment period so I wouldn’t count that in just in case ( I could have 2 wages in one occasionally and my husband is paid weekly so it’s not something I would rely on ) . This job is hours between 745am and 8pm , mon - sat with one late 8pm finish per month and up to 6 Saturdays per year . 36.5 hours per week . There will be an element of working from home - not sure of the details but from what I’ve read home working is an option with some work in the office that isn’t too far . Working from home would be good as I would be able to be there when the kids come home . To be honest being able to be at home sometimes during holidays would be good . I know I wouldn’t get the school holidays off but I’m sure I could use some annual leave - so even if I got maybe 2 weeks or some days in some weeks during the holidays that would be a nice balance ?

But - the CS job would mean a £200ish pay cut per month . Not on what I earn now but on what I could earn . Am I selfish to do that ? Knowing I could earn £200ish a month more and have holidays off ? Based on what I earn now if I think “ but I earn £500 per week - that’s £2000- £2500 per month …,” but that on the face of it . There are 13 weeks of the year I don’t earn that and there are weeks where I’m on day to day supply that I don’t get every day and there are holidays to think of ( for eg these Easter holidays I’ve earnt £80 one week and I’ll earn £250 for the second week- this is only because the school im in have different term dates so they are off when the other schools go back meaning I did one day at holiday club in week 1 and ( hopefully ) I’ll get a few days next week on supply in other schools so I’m basing it on having 2 days next week but I’m not certain as so far nothing ) .

As a guide this past tax year on supply I have taken home just under £17k. Admittedly there was a few months where I was working part time due to an accident my husband had . Had I worked every day term time then in the academic year plus the holiday club say 2 days a week I would take home around £21k.

The CS take home is £20,106.

Teaching full time in a permanent role I would take home £22959.

The teaching pay scale goes up each year but I’m still in M1 until I’ve done another term ECT then I would be at M2 until I completed the other three terms ECT then it would be M3 and that would go up dependant on performance review etc .

CS I know offers progression .

No progression in supply .

I don’t know what to do .

My husband would support anything I chose . He says my happiness is more important and we will manage but my happiness doesn’t pay the bills .

[thenightgarden]

I'm a teacher. Absolutely go for the civil service job - that will decide you one way or the other if you get it!

You can always do tutoring to make up the rest of the money after work - there's loads of online tutoring options out there nationally paying £25-30 p/h- I've just signed up for them!

Don't go back into full time teaching and have a breakdown - that's the worse thing you could do.

[thenightgarden]

Also post this on the staff room board where you will get more replies.

[Meredusoleil]

Definitely don't teach full time if you are saying it will affect your mental health!

So that leaves continuing on supply or the CS. If you hate teaching that much, I would say try to at least finish your ECT (so one more year on supply) and then move to the CS. But if not, just go for the CS and see what happens. You might not get it anyway and if you do and don't like it, there will still be teaching jobs to go back to.

[Chilto]

Once you have the cs role you could look to move to something better paid within cs, lots of internal vacancies

[LanaL]

@thenightgarden

I'm a teacher. Absolutely go for the civil service job - that will decide you one way or the other if you get it!

You can always do tutoring to make up the rest of the money after work - there's loads of online tutoring options out there nationally paying £25-30 p/h- I've just signed up for them!

Don't go back into full time teaching and have a breakdown - that's the worse thing you could do.

Thank you . The fact that you’re a teacher telling me to go for the CS job speaks volumes 😞

I have thought about tutoring but I worry that I don’t have enough subject knowledge- as I’m so early on in my career . I don’t have a lot of confidence in myself x

[LanaL]

@Chilto

Once you have the cs role you could look to move to something better paid within cs, lots of internal vacancies

I have heard this about the CS which sounds really positive !

[LanaL]

@Meredusoleil

Definitely don't teach full time if you are saying it will affect your mental health!

So that leaves continuing on supply or the CS. If you hate teaching that much, I would say try to at least finish your ECT (so one more year on supply) and then move to the CS. But if not, just go for the CS and see what happens. You might not get it anyway and if you do and don't like it, there will still be teaching jobs to go back to.

I keep thinking that I should complete ECT but I’ve not done any on supply . The role I’m in now is my first long term and there was talk of my ECT but I haven’t pushed it . The observing and scrutiny is what pushed me to leave my permanent role . Even now , the head even coming into my class or making any comments - even though I’ve had no negative - just sets my anxiety off . The thought of being observed and assessed gives me such anxiety . I know every job has an element of this and I’ve been through it before - obviously I’m almost 40 and teaching isn’t my first job so I know it happens but the way it is with teaching is just a different level 😟

[AutumnLeaves5]

You’ve got nothing to lose by applying to the CS job - if you get offered the role that’s the time to make the decision.

Any interview process gives you the time to understand who they are, what working for them might be like, the flexibility and the opportunities. You might go for an interview and think no way do I want to work there!

[Frosty1000]

Go with your gut, but not sure I'd do a call centre role at HMRC - horrendous call volumes and it'd be relentless especially at this time of year.

But as a pp said you can always give it a go and apply for something else internally.

[MiddleSaged]

Absolutely get out of teaching, no salary is worth your mental health.

Just a warning though that call handler jobs in the CS can be stressful too in a different way - the training is often inadequate (especially in HMRC). It can open doors to different/better opportunities though, you just have to be prepared to put up with a challenging first 6-12 months and be quite proactive/self-motivating to learn on the job without much spoon-feeding. Also, be aware that CS application forms and interviews are a skill in themselves, so read everything you can find on success profiles.

[MummytoAAandX]

I am a teacher and love it. I also love being with my own children in the holidays. Schools are very different. Could you try independent or grammar or a different stage? HE? I don't know. There must have been something which pushed you towards teaching in the first place. Don't give up if your experience is just in one school. We have an ECT who came to us from a different school doing supply as she hated her last school so much. It's completely changed her mind and she loves it now.
That being said if teaching itself if not what you thought it was going to be like I also know people who have left and gone and done something else.
As others have said, there's nothing to lose in applying is there. If you're husband is supportive and you can cover childcare in the holidays it might be the right decision.

[Meredusoleil]

@LanaL

I keep thinking that I should complete ECT but I’ve not done any on supply . The role I’m in now is my first long term and there was talk of my ECT but I haven’t pushed it . The observing and scrutiny is what pushed me to leave my permanent role . Even now , the head even coming into my class or making any comments - even though I’ve had no negative - just sets my anxiety off . The thought of being observed and assessed gives me such anxiety . I know every job has an element of this and I’ve been through it before - obviously I’m almost 40 and teaching isn’t my first job so I know it happens but the way it is with teaching is just a different level 😟

In that case, I would forget about the ECT altogether and just go for the CS!

[LanaL]

@MiddleSaged

Absolutely get out of teaching, no salary is worth your mental health.

Just a warning though that call handler jobs in the CS can be stressful too in a different way - the training is often inadequate (especially in HMRC). It can open doors to different/better opportunities though, you just have to be prepared to put up with a challenging first 6-12 months and be quite proactive/self-motivating to learn on the job without much spoon-feeding. Also, be aware that CS application forms and interviews are a skill in themselves, so read everything you can find on success profiles.

I’ve done call centre type work before and at the time I hated it but looking back I was happier . I logged off and that was it. No one was scrutinising me , no one was overloading me , I didn’t think about work once I finished and I took nothing home . I don’t mind working hard - it’s just teaching is all the stuff on top of that and it’s just completely unrealistic expectations constantly!

The problem now - the application deadline is Monday !! I’m used to working to deadlines through uni ( I did my dissertation in 4 days 🤣😩) but I don’t know where to start !

[shuffleofftobuffalo]

I'm a civil servant and have recruited quite a few ex teachers who no longer wanted to be in the classroom. Teaching gives you a tonne of really good transferable skills, make sure you don't undersell yourself.

I'd not go for a job in the HMRC call centre though unless I had a firm plan to get a foot in the door, pass probation well and move to a non call centre job elsewhere in the civil service.

Have a look and see what other departments are located within a distance you're prepared to travel so you get an idea of where you might be able to go, bearing in mind most depts want you in 3 days a week these days. For instance if you work in Leeds there's a huge govt hub there with lots of different departments to choose from, if you're in North Wales you'll have a very limited choice and might be stuck with a sucky call centre job for a long time.

Don't expect the same level of flexibility in those particular HMRC roles that you might get elsewhere in the CS, you've mentioned being there when your kids get home for instance. Highly unlikely you'd be able to stop taking calls to see to them, or even be able to wfh on the same day each week. Contact whoever is named on the job advert and ask those questions beforehand.

[LanaL]

@MummytoAAandX

I am a teacher and love it. I also love being with my own children in the holidays. Schools are very different. Could you try independent or grammar or a different stage? HE? I don't know. There must have been something which pushed you towards teaching in the first place. Don't give up if your experience is just in one school. We have an ECT who came to us from a different school doing supply as she hated her last school so much. It's completely changed her mind and she loves it now.
That being said if teaching itself if not what you thought it was going to be like I also know people who have left and gone and done something else.
As others have said, there's nothing to lose in applying is there. If you're husband is supportive and you can cover childcare in the holidays it might be the right decision.

See this makes me stop and think . Is it that one school ? But then I’m in a lovely school at the moment , they do nothing wrong they are all lovely - but I still have that feeling . I’m on supply with no planning but I’m still there late each night and I still feel as though I’m being judged and I feel as though I’m to blame if behaviour isn’t great or the children struggle and it’s just a lot . If I knew what it was before hand I wouldn’t have trained . It’s so different to what I thought . I know I’m a good teacher in terms of my relationship with the children and I can handle behaviour etc but all the politics - it just gives me anxiety and I’m an anxious person anyway

[SecondHandFurniture]

I am nearly 40 and I started in a whole new sector at 36 - financial services. I'm a qualified mortgage adviser now but started as part time admin. It's definitely worth taking something in the CS and working your way up.

[LanaL]

@shuffleofftobuffalo

I'm a civil servant and have recruited quite a few ex teachers who no longer wanted to be in the classroom. Teaching gives you a tonne of really good transferable skills, make sure you don't undersell yourself.

I'd not go for a job in the HMRC call centre though unless I had a firm plan to get a foot in the door, pass probation well and move to a non call centre job elsewhere in the civil service.

Have a look and see what other departments are located within a distance you're prepared to travel so you get an idea of where you might be able to go, bearing in mind most depts want you in 3 days a week these days. For instance if you work in Leeds there's a huge govt hub there with lots of different departments to choose from, if you're in North Wales you'll have a very limited choice and might be stuck with a sucky call centre job for a long time.

Don't expect the same level of flexibility in those particular HMRC roles that you might get elsewhere in the CS, you've mentioned being there when your kids get home for instance. Highly unlikely you'd be able to stop taking calls to see to them, or even be able to wfh on the same day each week. Contact whoever is named on the job advert and ask those questions beforehand.

I feel as an ECT I don’t have as much to offer as those teaching longer .

I don’t mind going into the office - I’m out 730-5 every day now , it would be nice if some days I could be home . I used to WFH in my previous job - calls could be non existent at certain times ( usually late at night when kids were in bed ) but when they were up they were constant , with like 100 in the queue - it was manic and I couldn’t really stop to talk to the children but I was there , you know . Especially in the holidays - the children are in their rooms if we don’t go out and I don’t see them 🤣 but just knowing I’m here with them .

I would definitely want to progress . I have seen other jobs but they look just more complicated and I just feel as though this one with 100 vacancies might be a better chance but I may as well apply for some others I guess !

[theusualwednesday]

Go for it! If you put a call out on the work board, lots of CS people can give advice on how to approach the CS!

[LanaL]

@Frosty1000

Go with your gut, but not sure I'd do a call centre role at HMRC - horrendous call volumes and it'd be relentless especially at this time of year.

But as a pp said you can always give it a go and apply for something else internally.

I know it won’t be the same but I worked as a call centre operative for 17 years or so. Different - this was in transport - but it could be relentless. 8 hours of continuous calls , or at quiet times we could have barely any calls . Both were hard - I could be on a call with people shouting at me and look on the board and see 100 calls waiting, or I could be sat with nothing else to do except watch the clock ( when it was busy I would say I preferred it quiet and when it was quiet I would say I preferred it busy 🤣 ) I worked in the office then it moved to home - both had benefits . At the end of my time there I hated it and couldn’t wait to leave to teach but then once I went in to teaching I really missed it! I wouldn’t want to do it forever - I trained so hard for a career that I want to go into something where I can progress now . I’m almost 40 , I don’t want to be doing the same job forever but I also want job satisfaction. I know no one loves work , I don’t expect to be skipping in to work every day but I just don’t want to be in a job where any time off is overshadowed by dread about going back .

I feel like at this point - after years of studying and working in jobs that either offered no progression , low wage or I hated I just want to be at a point where I’m happy and settled . My kids are older now and I wasted so much time not being there in holidays then placing all my bets on teaching that has led to me still not being there that maybe I accept as a working parent I can’t always be off with them and earn a wage but I can find a job that doesn’t take my soul and actually leaves me with the headspace to have quality time with them . Even the weekends at the moment I’m just worrying about the future as I know I can’t stay in supply forever or I’m filled with dread for the coming week and I don’t feel like I’m present

[LanaL]

@theusualwednesday

Go for it! If you put a call out on the work board, lots of CS people can give advice on how to approach the CS!

Thank you I’ll do this !

[LanaL]

@SecondHandFurniture

I am nearly 40 and I started in a whole new sector at 36 - financial services. I'm a qualified mortgage adviser now but started as part time admin. It's definitely worth taking something in the CS and working your way up.

Really positive to hear, thank you !

[Anonymouseky]

@SecondHandFurniture

I am nearly 40 and I started in a whole new sector at 36 - financial services. I'm a qualified mortgage adviser now but started as part time admin. It's definitely worth taking something in the CS and working your way up.

Sorry to jump on this thread, but I am also a teacher thinking about a career change in a few years time. I’d be interested in becoming a mortgage advisor. Can I ask, is this job predominantly a face to face role and what is the salary like? Do they pay you through training? Sorry for the questions, but I would be interested in hearing from someone in the know. Finally, do you enjoy the role?

[Anonymouseky]

OP- as a teacher myself, I would absolutely go for the CS job. I do enjoy teaching, but I have been in jobs before that have left me feeling very anxious about going in. The stress was unbearable. I had a few years out of education in a public sector role, which took a while to get used to as I’d spent the whole of my career up to that point in educational roles. Since returning to teaching, I have started to really enjoy it. It helps that I work in a great place with wonderful colleagues. However, I am in my 40s and I know that I will not be able to teach long term. There’s no way I can be in my 60s and dealing with this level of stress and scrutiny. I know I have to get out at some point. If the school you are in is lovely and you still feel like this, I think it would be best to go for non teaching jobs and the CS has so many opportunities and chances for progression, I really think this could be a good option for you. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide.

[SecondHandFurniture]

@Anonymouseky

Sorry to jump on this thread, but I am also a teacher thinking about a career change in a few years time. I’d be interested in becoming a mortgage advisor. Can I ask, is this job predominantly a face to face role and what is the salary like? Do they pay you through training? Sorry for the questions, but I would be interested in hearing from someone in the know. Finally, do you enjoy the role?

It depends how you go into it. Somewhere like London and Country you'd be an employee with commission % but many are self-employed, even who work for firms, which pays well but is quite hard. We are 99% telephone and I do enjoy it. I wouls speak to a specialist recruiter.