Somalian Descent

[YearsSinceISawYou]

AIBU to wonder why the papers are referring to the man arrested for killing David Amess as a British Muslim of Somalian descent.

Surely, if he is British-that's all we need to know. Why do we need to know about his line of descent?

[Buggritbuggrit]

@maddening

Buggritbuggrit - a British man of French origin is probably just a bog standard (in this country) white British man, his grandparents origin does not really add anything- unless he had attacked some French institution or French figure perhaps as then it may be an aggravating factor.

This is exactly my point. Why is having Somali ancestors a marker that ‘adds something’ but having French ancestors is not? Race.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that this man’s ancestry had anything to do with the stabbing. The ancestry of the chap that killed Jo Cox was never part of the narrative. Why? Race.

[Buggritbuggrit]

@znaika

That's bullshit. It would definitely be pointed out if he was E European.

Yes, because Eastern European is foreign and ‘other’. However, that’s not a like for like example. Like for like would be describing someone with Eastern European ancestry as ‘of Eastern European descent’ - which isn’t a thing that ever happens.

Unless said ancestry isn’t white, after a generation or two a person question is regarded as what pp described as ‘bog standard white British’. Whereas POC can be in this country for multiple generations and still be othered.

[Buggritbuggrit]

The way these sorts of things are reported always remind me of this.

[NumberTheory]

Somalia is a failed state with strong links to islamic terrorism. It is partially controlled by Al-Shabaab which is a member of Al-Qaeda.

Somali links to a muslim terrorist are relevant to an understanding of how terrorism is propagated around the world and to the threat of terrorism in the UK.

I agree there is also a likelihood of it being published increasing racism against Somalis in the UK. I don't think it's necessarily a good choice to use it the papers the way they have. But it is certainly a fact of interest to anyone who is seriously trying to understand terrorism in the UK.

[AutumnalLeaves38]

"...whereas POC can be in this country for multiple generations and still be othered."

^^
This

[bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg]

@MiddlesexGirl

It's some kind of identifier - along with sex, age . Did we need to know he is a man? Likely it would be said if he was white too.

Yes, we need to know the sex of perpetrators of violent crimes. It's very rarely a female perp.

[bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg]

@NiceGerbil

And the man that killed Jo Cox?

Is white British a good indicator of the beliefs that he killed for?

Being male is a good indicator of someone being willing to use violence to impose his beliefs, regardless of what those beliefs are. Women will disagree stridently but seldom resort to violence.

The common factor between this guy and Jo Cox's killer and the Virginia Tech killer and the murderer of those Asian spa workers and the Dunblane shooter and the killer of Pvt Rigby and the 9/11 and 7/7 perps is that they are all male.

[MimiDaisy11]

The way some people are talking about democracy and freedom of press sound like they think the current way is without biases and selection.

Also I don’t think anyone is talking about banning the mention of someone’s origin, just asking the question why it’s done in some cases and not others.

It’s a lot less common nowadays for papers to mention if someone is gay in a negative story if it’s irrelevant to the story. I remember in the past reading negative stories in the tabloids and it was clear it was irrelevant to the story and just a way of othering the person.

To this case, I can see it from both ways. There is a link between Somalia and islamist terrorism. It’s also the case that just because you’re British doesn’t mean you’re not influenced by your religious and family links. That said it’s only ever done negatively. If someone’s heritage instilled in them some good qualities that helped them achieve something then that won’t be reported on.

[howard97A]

If you think we don't need to know his line of descent, why do you think we need to know his nationality?

[Stevenage689]

[quote mygenericusername]@Coogee. It may be a man v woman thing. Who knows. I guess when you’ve been bunched in with all Asians for the past 20 years, been stared at on planes and in crowded spaces with constant suspicion because of something that was carried out by people not only of a different religion but nationality it makes you a bit paranoid.

It was never stressed enough where the attackers came from. People from civilised countries have been victimised for years as a result.[/quote]
This is racist and extremely unpleasant.

"People from civilised countries" - as if all people from Somalia should be treated with suspicion because of one man, or even because of large groups of people is abhorrent. I know many people of Somali descent who are kind, civilised and peaceful people.

[mygenericusername]

@Stevenage689

I never said every Somalian was an evil terrorist. Stop putting words in my mouth. Some somalians are lovely people. However it doesn’t take away from the fact that Somalia remains a violent nation near the top of the table for potential threat to the U.K. terror wise. The travel advice is Do not travel to Somalia due to: armed conflict, the ongoing very high threat of terrorist attack and kidnapping, and dangerous levels of violent crime. Are the government racist for publishing this advice?

It’s important to know where Ali Harbis potential views came from. His dad was a former government official in Somalia. He had obviously been radicalised at some stage. There is nothing wrong with knowing that.

[Florianus]

I looked back to Jo Cox murder and terrorism was not used in what I saw.

The trial judge made it clear that while Thomas Mair was convicted of murder, his motivation was terrorism (not revenge, personal gain or any other motive).

This tends to be common in such cases - charging a person with terrorism can lead to all sorts of arguments in court about who it is whp may or may not have been terrorised, and what it means to be terrorised. In contrast, the average jury knows what is meant by murder.

[Brainwave89]

No, it is fair to talk about origins and the fact that the investigation is being treated as a terrorist attack. This time its a suspected islamic terrorist, for Jo Cox, it was a right wing terrorist. No Muslim I have ever met would support this terrible atrocity in the same way that I was deeply shocked when Jo Cox was killed. On all sides we need to think about how we close down anyone with these kind of thoughts or sympathies.

[Brainwave89]

@nicegerbil. No that is way too simplistic. Some of the planners of the Bataclan attack in Paris were women, as were some of the leaders of the Kenyan shopping mall attack. I agree that the majority of violent attacks are carried out by men, but women have also played a role.

[Porcupineintherough]

@mygenericusername tell us of the civilised countries of which you speak? Do you mean civilised like the UK (years of civil war, constantly at war with other countries, likes to colonise people)?

[NiceGerbil]

[quote Brainwave89]@nicegerbil. No that is way too simplistic. Some of the planners of the Bataclan attack in Paris were women, as were some of the leaders of the Kenyan shopping mall attack. I agree that the majority of violent attacks are carried out by men, but women have also played a role.[/quote]
I think you're replying to someone who replied to me. BB something?

[VladmirsPoutine]

To further drive the agenda that brown/black people pose a real danger to the UK's 'civilised' society.