How do farmers reconcile themselves to the volumes of animals they send to slaughter over the course of their lifetimes?

[Empanadas]

Hi, this is something I’ve always wondered. However, I was watching that Netflix series about Prince Charles and the Duchy of Cornwall and there was a farmer showing a whole barn of cattle he has obviously reared from birth, but quite blithely saying, “oh they'll all be off next week.”

AIBU to think being a cattle / sheep / chicken farmer takes a certain type of person and to wonder how they deal with their conscience in this depressing business?

[Backstreetsbackalrightdadada]

Yeah foot and mouth was absolutely the pits. I remember it well. Just the horror, the matts on the road and the piles of animals shot and being burnt. The animals were out of your control and not knowing what would happen to them, their welfare and the fear of infecting farms near you or them infecting you. The catchment areas were weird. Hated every second. Felt like no time after BSE which was also out of our control! Remember the government sets what you can and can’t use on animals - medicine etc - and those chemicals were crazy, often you didn’t want to use them but had no say. Or your buyer eg a retailer wouldn’t buy from you if you didn’t use them - organic used to be seen as freaky not good!

[Bitofachinwag]

I understand that the idea of killing and eating animals seems wrong to some people. But If you are a vegan and you believe farm animals are treated badly, do you know for certain that the humans involved in making your vegan food have been treated well and paid fairly?

[EvenRosesHaveThorns]

Factory farming, the elephant in the room none of the Mumsnet farmers seem to represent. Male chicks born in the egg industry = all killed after sexing, gassed in this country, fed into a shredder across the world. Male dairy calves = too many produced in dairy industry for breeding, so either shot on farm or turned into veal. NB calves taken away after 24 hours from dairy cows, who are constantly impregnated to produce milk. Broiler chickens for meat, killed at 38 days old for some cheap chicken nuggets. All terribly normal, legal and totally unspoken about practice in the UK that you did not know about. Indefensible.

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

As has already been said, the basic choice we have is that we either have cows, pigs and sheep in the world - having a chance of a pleasant life before being quickly killed and making way for the next generation - or otherwise these animals go extinct - or at the very least extremely endangered.

To channel Tennyson, is it better for them to have lived and eventually died than never to have lived at all? I suppose you could take it to extremes and ask what's the point in us having babies, as they will only eventually die anyway.

[Brainwave89]

The animals are livestock. Good farmers are great practices of animal welfare whilst their stock are still alive and they enjoy a good life. I enjoy eating meet and am very thankful to the people who work long hours to provide it for us.

[osbertthesyrianhamster]

Yawn. Yes, YABU and judgemental and narrow minded and patronising. Why do people have to defend or justify to randoms? Nah, I don't think so. Don't like meat, don't eat it.

[Louiselady500]

ffs animals eat other animals, get used to it!

[VariantL1130]

I bet all the vegans on this thread either drive / use gas and electricity in their homes / own smart devices that have been made with precious minerals mined out of the ground / wear clothing shipped from countries abroad / eat fruit shipped from abroad etc etc etc...

ALL of which contribute to global warming that will have a much bigger impact on animal life that just meat consumption.

[Newgirls]

I am more baffled by passionate dog owners who lavish so much care on their pets but are completely fine with eating lambs.

I respect that farmers are doing their job. The UK buys/eats too much poorly raised animals. We are all responsible for high welfare by the choices we make. It should be expensive to eat meat especially as eating veggie is easy now for non meat days.

[Newgirls]

@VariantL1130

I bet all the vegans on this thread either drive / use gas and electricity in their homes / own smart devices that have been made with precious minerals mined out of the ground / wear clothing shipped from countries abroad / eat fruit shipped from abroad etc etc etc...

ALL of which contribute to global warming that will have a much bigger impact on animal life that just meat consumption.

Meat production is worse for carbon emissions than flying. I’m not vegan btw but that info is widely available.

[Crankley]

Goady bullshit.

[Newgirls]

@EvenRosesHaveThorns

Factory farming, the elephant in the room none of the Mumsnet farmers seem to represent. Male chicks born in the egg industry = all killed after sexing, gassed in this country, fed into a shredder across the world. Male dairy calves = too many produced in dairy industry for breeding, so either shot on farm or turned into veal. NB calves taken away after 24 hours from dairy cows, who are constantly impregnated to produce milk. Broiler chickens for meat, killed at 38 days old for some cheap chicken nuggets. All terribly normal, legal and totally unspoken about practice in the UK that you did not know about. Indefensible.

Strong agree. We see a lot of marketing of nice farmers leaning on gates whereas that isn’t the reality of the majority of industrial farms. There is a lot of spin and marketing in meat sales.

[Mypathtriedtokillme]

I grew up in a farm with a father who spent days getting sheep who’s lambs had died to take an orphaned or rejected lamb as it’s own because he though lambs getting raised by people was bad for their mental health.(“they need to learn to be lambs not bloody people or like that mental Wether who thinks he’s a dog”)
This was a sheep station with literally thousands of sheep. (Who spent their lives being sheep, grazing happily, being shorn twice a year and crutched twice more)
He cared for his stock and took care to make sure they have a relatively stress free life.

[Newgirls]

@vulpesfoxtrot

If you want to be concerned about UK agriculture practices, consider this OP-

Our policy now is looking to environmental credentials in this country which will see us take viable land out of agricultural production in order to rewild or sequester carbon as a box ticking exercise.
But whilst we all need to eat, the job of growing food will be outsourced to countries with much less conscience for the environment and this is when you get malpractice such as destruction of rainforests for farming.
But it's fine because little England is green and pleasant and it's not as though we all breathe the same air...
Do you feed yourself entirely on seasonal produce like my livestock farming family do here? Or is your very green carbon footprint muddied with the beans you're flying in from Egypt and the avos from Spain?
And soya production, I mean that is just brilliant in terms of green credentials.

We import 50% of all our food. Tea, choc, fruit etc is eaten by all 🤷‍♀️ some of those are mono cultures as bad as soya production. Yet we have happily bought them for years.

[Empanadas]

Hi sorry, I posted and then had to drive somewhere and hadn’t expected this volume of responses so quickly. I will go back through and read more slowly.

I don’t agree with the sentiment - “some animals wouldn’t exist if they weren’t food.” A cow or a sheep is a species and has the same right to exist as a human. We do not own animals. To be honest, if a life only exists to be slaughtered, I think it is better that that life didn’t exist in the first place. Even if it does have good conditions in its short life.

From what I’ve read about cows they are intuitive animals with complex family bonds. Do farmers think the cows dint sense danger when they are bundled into vehicles and sent off for slaughter? Do you think they are terrified in those last moments? Family groups ripped apart? Does this not bother you?

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

@EvenRosesHaveThorns

Factory farming, the elephant in the room none of the Mumsnet farmers seem to represent. Male chicks born in the egg industry = all killed after sexing, gassed in this country, fed into a shredder across the world. Male dairy calves = too many produced in dairy industry for breeding, so either shot on farm or turned into veal. NB calves taken away after 24 hours from dairy cows, who are constantly impregnated to produce milk. Broiler chickens for meat, killed at 38 days old for some cheap chicken nuggets. All terribly normal, legal and totally unspoken about practice in the UK that you did not know about. Indefensible.

Male chicks, killed at a day old. Yep. What you should be railing about is the £2 cooked rotisserie chicken. The lack of value placed on chickens by supermarkets, passed onto the consumer, is encouraging the mass farming of the bird. Changing that would solve the broiler issue too.

Persuade supermarkets to use their influence and change the farming practice. And yes, they can. They have remodelled so much farming practice, from lettuce to milk, eggs to rotisserie chicken.

Male calves - yep! So stop campaigning against veal. It's not as though veal crates are legal here. The veal industry changed decades ago. But PETA etc won't stop with their lies, so male calves have no commercial value.

Your assertion that I do not know is entirely incorrect. I expect many others here will say the same.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Anthropomorphism OP?

And ecological diversity.

Without which your veggie/ vegan foods wouldn't be possible.

[Empanadas]

And what about lambs and veal? How old are these animals when you kill them?

[Femme99]

Because to them, their part of their income source, so view them as commodities, so I guess they detach themselves. I’ve seen stories of farmers going vegan, so some must end up making the connection, very much the same as I did, when I gave up eating meat.

[Mypathtriedtokillme]

I think everyone needs to make more sensible choices when it comes to food consumption. Know where their meat comes from and eat less if it, eat fruit and veggies in its growing season that’s not imported from miles or hemispheres away and try to reduce our reliance on monoculture crops which put everyone’s food security at risk from viruses and disease.

If you want to eat vegan, go for it but don’t think being a vegan isn’t necessarily the ethical environmental choice it’s touted as.

[DancesWithTortoises]

Meat is a crop like any other. Why would anyone feel guilty about harvesting meat?

Some people are overly sentimental about animals. If you want to be veggie or vegan that's fine but most of us like eating meat. And that's not going to change.

[Mintjulia]

My previous neighbour owned a herd of prize dairy cattle. He lavished every care on them, checked them every couple of hours during foot & mouth, but had no issues with sending male calves to market, and slaughtering ageing animals.
He treated them with respect but they weren't pets. He wouldn't ship livestock abroad, regarding that as unnecessary but didn't lose sight of the fact they had to pay their way.

[Unsubscribed]

I love a good vegan thread! the gift that keeps on giving

[vulpesfoxtrot]

The misinformation on this thread is ridiculous.

@Empanadas your view is so simplistic. We own a 700 acre livestock farm, the land is grade 3/4, it isn't capable of cropping combinable crops and the topography would make it physically impossible to harvest even if the soil quality wasn't 60% Lake District rock. If I weren't farming cattle as a business I wouldn't be keeping them for the good of my health, livestock exists and thrives in this country precisely because there is a demand for it and we have leading welfare standards to boot.
The issue with MN and farming is that broadly the former can't educate themselves on the latter. Why let the truth get in the way of a good debate though.

[Lemming20]

I believe firmly that no humans or animals are here for others to use for their own benefit. That includes slavery / meat / dairy etc etc. I dream of a world where it’s all peace and love and we all live off responsibly grown local veggies I’d also prefer that no animals ever came into being if their sole purpose was to feed a human. Surely that land can be used to grow crops and feed even more humans. I would love to be an arable farmer!

I am however also a realist and know not everyone shares my views. I am a non meat eating human but I also support higher quality farming and better environments for animals and am grateful to the farmers who do this. People will eat meat whether I like it or not and I would prefer it is therefore raised by the responsible farmers described above. As another poster said this may come from a place of privilege but I don’t ever agree with low welfare meat, dairy or eggs. If it’s too expensive to buy high welfare then don’t. It’s possible (although harder) to do this and still be healthy.