To think this is unbelievably shit from the police?

[TheLostDiadem]

Six weeks ago my elderly mum had her house burgled while she was asleep upstairs. Not a lot of valuable things were taken as she doesn’t really have much but my (deceased) dad’s medals were taken, her laptop, a box of jewellery belonging to my grandma was taken and her cat was found downstairs with a broken rib where we assume he was kicked (but obviously can’t be certain it was the burglar).

She phoned the local police number and was told to report it online. I came round to do it and help her tidy up and make sure she was ok etc. 48hrs later and still heard nothing from the police so I called them to be told they were incredibly busy and responses can take up to a week. Finally, 8 days after being robbed my mum gets an answer phone message from the police saying they’ve received her report and given her a crime reference number so she can claim on insurance. If she has any further queries she can email them and they’ll get back to her. No enquiry, not welfare check, nothing. Just a crime reference number over a week later.

I live with my dc in the same town. In the garden of my house is an outhouse that is currently being renovated so that when my dm becomes less independent she can live there. It’s nearly finished and has been separated off from my house and has a separate entrance and drive. The electricity had finally been connected last week so last night I decided to do a sleep over there with dc, just for something to do. At 12.15 I was woken up by police hammering on the door. They immediately asked me my address and what I was doing there. I said I lived next door, was sleeping over with dc, had something happened, was dm ok as I assumed something bad had happened. They wouldn’t tell me anything just asked for proof of address. I said it was all next door and they demanded I go and get it. I wasn’t happy leaving dc alone with the police so had to wake them up and drag them over and back again while I got my driving license. It was only then that I realised they thought that I was breaking lockdown rules (very touristy area). I gave them driving license and got a lecture on how we weren’t supposed to leave home unless absolutely necessary, fancying a sleep over wasn’t necessary and I wasn’t to do it again. I asked if it was any different to camping in the garden and was that allowed, what possible harm am I doing sleeping in what is basically a garage and was asked “are you sure you want to do this? You have your children with you and I’m sure you don’t want a scene”. I found this genuinely quite frightening as it was two big, male police officers and I was alone with two young dc. They then left after telling me to make sure I stay at home from now on and that they wouldn’t take further action this time.

TLDR - my mum was burgled and police responded a week later with a crime reference number and nothing else

I slept in the converted garage in the garden with 2dc and was woken in the night by 2 police men to be lectured firmly about lockdown rules.

If I’m not being unreasonable do you think a complaint would be warranted? I’m one of those people who have never really had any dealings with the police and sort of assumed they’d be on my side. Really shocked at what I’ve experienced the 2 times I’ve actually dealt with them though.

[skodadoda]

@Bettafish

You should make a complaint but make sure it is focussed.

I recently made a complaint about the police not attending - I linked my complaint to their policies and procedures The complaints process was very thorough and 3 out of 4 points of my complaint were upheld. I received an official apology, which was better than nothing. If people don't complain then it is easy for the police and policy makers to assume that the service is satisfactory.

Very sound advice.

[Dowser]

@TheLostDiadem

The outbuilding doesn’t have a separate address and is very clearly part of the main house. It was the garage which had a drive that was coming off one road while the front door to the house is pointing at the other road as it’s a corner plot. It’s absolutely not a separate home, it’s a normal sized double garage. It’s painted the same colour as our house, it’s hard to describe without photos but as soon as the police saw inside it’s pretty bloody obvious that it’s not the kind of place a tourist would want to stay! It’s still a total building site and we were sleeping in air beds and sleeping bags.

DM doesn’t drive at the moment so the drive isn’t for her - it’s more if we have visitors or if she needs care then they would need somewhere to park as no off road parking round here.

My dh has come up with a good solution

Next time anyone gets a knock at the door in the middle of the night
Ring the police ..straightaway..and refuse to open it..till what they are doing has been verified.
Trust no one!
I went off the police after one night when exh was violent towards me , I went to the phone and dialled 999
He ripped the phone out of the socket. So I spoke to none

Next morning the police came..I stumbled out of bed to let them in..he’d skipped off hadn’t he

They had got our address had called round but as all was quiet they left.
I could’ve been left bleeding ..that upset me more than anything.

[TheBouquets]

For a while recently I thought that local vigilantes were about to take over our town. At first I thought that is worrying but on second thoughts and with recent experiences of Police I thought maybe that will be OK. I have several times been at the local shop and a man said to have a certain reputation has politely held the door for me to go in the shop.
On the experiences of police in our area, in connection with a well publicised serious crime and my personal experiences I really do wonder whether police or the vigilantes would be better.
Either way right now I do not feel safe or confident in my own town

[MmeLaraque]

@yearinyearout

Those two women were not "just out walking". There was considerable backlash in their local area about what they did. They drove several miles to walk in a beauty spot in a small village that they don't live in. .

Which they were perfectly entitled to do, and that's why the fines were withdrawn.

They were not entitled to at all. People are supposed to stay in the village, town or part of the city they live in. They drove *out of their town, and then several miles to the place where they were spotted.

It was widely reported where they apparently live. PLenty of spaces there for them to walk.


The police behaviour in the OP isn't great, but doesn't surprise me one bit. I had to support an autistic teen at the police station a coupleof years ago. Police were gits. They knew the teen was (is) autistic, and cuffed the/left them in a cell for several hours anyway. Took a few phone calls and a duty solicitor to get the teen out. Teen was a minor at the time.

[Comefromaway]

Actually, according to the law, they were perfectly entitled to drive several miles out of their local area to walk, which is why the police had to back diwn as the fine would never stand up in court.

[Comefromaway]

But what you say about their treatment of an autistic teen is one thing that frightens my daughter. She knows several people in the autistic community who have suffered at the hands of the police for essentially having a meltdown.

[CrunchyBiscs]

What does 'having a meltdown' involve.
And if of little note why would the police be involved?

[MmeLaraque]

Sadly, OP, this doesn't surprise me at all. Policing in the UK is supposed to be by consent, but I strongly suspect that large numbers of people would withdraw their consent if they could, because of behaviour like this from the police.

I know what gits the police can be. I've multiple experiences and incidents where I've had to remind officers what the law actually is, because they just don't know. Officers don't like to be told they don't know, and really don't like finding out that the person they're "engaging with" knows more about the law than they do. Which isn't difficult if one has read basic law. (I read law at university).

One of those experiences was attending a police station as Appropriate Adult for an autistic teen. AT had learning difficulties. I had to insist on a duty solicitor (AT had apparently said they didn't need one, because "haven't done anything to need one"... so police were going with that, even though they'd been explicitly told the kid was autistic). Long story short: police were bar stewards, and it took several hours to secure the AT's release. Duty Solicitor wasn't impressed and couldn't fathom why AT hadn't simply been warned and released to parents immediately.

Would I trust the police? Not really. Sometimes, one has to call them, because they are the people one is supposed to call in certain situations. I'd think *very carefully about ever calling them, though. Very carefully. The one time I had to call in relation to a serious crime, I made sure I had a crime number before I allowed them to hang up. They still bungled that, and their "investigation" was a farce, but hey.

[LastTrainEast]

The police have better things to do now than go after criminals. They have their own political aims and their own welfare to think of.

I was brought up to respect the police so that was my default for a long time, but real world experience has taught me that they are just another gang now.

[MmeLaraque]

@CrunchyBiscs

What does 'having a meltdown' involve.
And if of little note why would the police be involved?

"What does having a meltdown involve"? It's a reaction to overwhelming psychological distress (OPD), on the part of the autistic. So the reaction varies according to the individual. Some will lash out, some will hit themselves. Some will react in other ways, like curling into a ball and being unable to move. It really does depend on the individual autistic, and how autism presents in them/ affects them.

In this case, the autistic has no emotional regulation. They had an episode of OPD, and hit someone whilst in seizure/OPD. Which sounds bad, but arresting an autistic for OPD/meltdown is like arresting an epileptic for hitting someone whilst they're having a seizure.

That seizure was captured on CCTV. The autistic had no memory of the incident that led to seizure, or the seizure (as is often the case). Police were told the kid was autistic, but arrested them anyway. Cuffed them (not supposed to do that) and bundled them into a police van. Then ignored the ASD diagnosis and read the autistic their rights/charge sheet, and treated them like a neurotypical. AT "signed" the charge sheet, but in a way that made it clear they have have learning difficulties. (Duty solicitor later echoed my "really? " The "signature" looked like a *very small child attempted to sign their name. Police actually looked sheepish, for a change..)

By the time I arrived, the autistic had already been locked up for an hour. Took me 20 minutes to get anyone to note that kid didn't have capacity, and another 10 for them to process the "AT needs a solicitor" request. "AT says they don't need one." "Yes, they do."

Fortunately, I have solicitor friends I can telephone about this sort of thing, so that, and my own understanding of the law, means that although the police treat me with disdain *anyway, I stand a chance of actually helping the person needing support in police custody. NO idea how those with less understanding of the law would cope. I dread to think.

[Comefromaway]

@CrunchyBiscs

What does 'having a meltdown' involve.
And if of little note why would the police be involved?

It varies between people but essentially it’s a response to over stimulation. My daughter will go to a dark place if at all possible (she was once found curled up inside a disabled toilet), my son once hid inside a locker at school. It can involve self harm or being unco-operative, the senses are overwhelmed so a person may not hear or respond to someone and if someone attempts to touch them it might provoke them lashing out. They might appear distressed and be stimming.

[MmeLaraque]

@LastTrainEast

The police have better things to do now than go after criminals. They have their own political aims and their own welfare to think of.

I was brought up to respect the police so that was my default for a long time, but real world experience has taught me that they are just another gang now.

This. I wish it weren't an accurate reflection of my experience, but it is.

[itsgettingwierd]

I would necessarily complain.

I'd write to head of force asking them to send you the copy of the documentation that states sleeping in a property on your land is breaking lockdown, asking what policy they have that states police should stop people asking questions as not to scare their children with a threatening tone and asking for their policy that states people sleeping on their property are a higher priority than burglary.

It's much harder for people to respond to direct questions in which you can only answer to make you look more of anyway than you were - eg there is no such covid rule - and so what you get in an apology rather than a complaint which often gets defence.

A skill I've learnt and utilised well as a send parent dealing with a LA who will lie until you ask them for proof of why they did x y and z - which means they cannot lie!

[Msmcc1212]

I fully support lockdown rules and the police upholding them but this is something else! YANBU.

Hope your mum is ok

[MmeLaraque]

@itsgettingwierd

I would necessarily complain.

I'd write to head of force asking them to send you the copy of the documentation that states sleeping in a property on your land is breaking lockdown, asking what policy they have that states police should stop people asking questions as not to scare their children with a threatening tone and asking for their policy that states people sleeping on their property are a higher priority than burglary.

It's much harder for people to respond to direct questions in which you can only answer to make you look more of anyway than you were - eg there is no such covid rule - and so what you get in an apology rather than a complaint which often gets defence.

A skill I've learnt and utilised well as a send parent dealing with a LA who will lie until you ask them for proof of why they did x y and z - which means they cannot lie!

That last bit: they will lie. They'll quote all sorts of bullshit and insist you're wrong/your complaint is vexatious (standard operating procedure from LAs). They can and will lie. Don't ever think they won't.

[CrunchyBiscs]

But what would you want the police to do if the person is hitting out or having a seizure - I can see empathy is required but if someone calls the police what do you want to happen?
They don't have access to a hospital bed, or mental unit without a docs request, I shouldn't think, what is required? If just some kind words then why are the police being involved.
I can see that the situation is difficult but feel the police are in trouble for doing what they are paid to do, arrest someone if there is a complaint of violence, if this was the case.

[BonnieDundee]

Not all of course, but a lot of them are, especially in the Met Police

Considering the attitude of the woman at the top of this organisation I am really not surprised.

I know of 2 people who have had bad experiences with the police (not the Met), one mildly bad, one absolutely awful. They.have a difficult job but in both these cases they basically bullied these people and in one of the cases, caused absolute devastation.

[EYProvider]

I own a nursery. A couple of years ago, we had an intruder on site. We were doing building works at the time, so there were no children present, but even so.

I dialled 999 and told the operator that a man had entered the yard, sat down on a bench and gone to sleep. The next sentence sounds like a lie, but I swear to God, it is absolutely true. The operator asked me to check on the welfare of the intruder and if necessary call the Samaritans to get help for him.

As I write this now, I still can’t believe it. It’s shocking that this is what the police have turned into. But I can well believe the OP.

How absolutely disgusting not to investigate a crime like that, where an elderly person was targeted. Makes you want to cry for what the country has turned into. London especially is a few years away from being a complete basket case - and the police have a lot to answer for.

[MmeLaraque]

@CrunchyBiscs

But what would you want the police to do if the person is hitting out or having a seizure - I can see empathy is required but if someone calls the police what do you want to happen?
They don't have access to a hospital bed, or mental unit without a docs request, I shouldn't think, what is required? If just some kind words then why are the police being involved.
I can see that the situation is difficult but feel the police are in trouble for doing what they are paid to do, arrest someone if there is a complaint of violence, if this was the case.

You are *shitting?

A person has a seizure, manages to hit someone during that seizure.

The police should not be called in the first place. An ambulance should be called if the person having the OPD/seizure needs one, but calling the police? That's just ignorance and stupidity. It really is.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/what-to-do-if-someone-has-a-seizure-fit/

[FrostyChocolateMilkshake]

I'd never normally be one to support lodging a complaint against the police or other public services. But this is outrageous I'm angry on your behalf, and your poor mum, having your dad's medals taken. It absolutely boils my blood stories like this
I hope you get somewhere with this OP

[BrilliantBetty]

I'd be knocking round at the neighbours to ask them why they called the police.
Was it a mistake thinking there was an intruder or where they just being a snake.
I'd definitely want an answer from them.

[BrilliantBetty]

*were

[ummmmbop]

@EYProvider you phoned the police to report someone had gone into the nursery and gone to sleep on a bench... you're outraged because police didn't investigate the crime??

I think you're misunderstanding what is crime. What you had was a trespasser. Trespassing isn't a crime , it's a civil offence. The police would have no lawful power to remove him. It sounds crazy yes, but that is the law 🤷‍♀️
A burglar has to steal or intend to steal... many burglars caught on premises before they've stolen anything say in interview that they were looking for somewhere to sleep, because they know that is not illegal and the police can't prove otherwise. But in your case, the person genuinely had just found somewhere to kip!

[EYProvider]

@ummmmbop - Did you miss the part where I said it was a nursery?

How would you feel if it was your child’s nursery? It happened to be closed at the time, but the operator didn’t know that. He didn’t care either.

[ummmmbop]

No I didn't miss that part, the type of building is irrelevant. I'm literally just telling you what the law is... you phone the police and told them that a person had gone into the building and gone to sleep on a bench. Clearly unlikely to be a burglar and therefore not a police matter. The operator asked you to do the kind human thing and see if they were ok. Get angry all you like but the operator did nothing wrong and there was no crime.