To not allow DH into our house for 10 days?

[MrsJE]

Opinions needed please.
DH is at work this evening and came across a man who was slumped on the floor and not responding when asked if he was OK.
DH phoned 999 and they asked him to do chest compressions on the person as his breathing was shallow, which DH did until the ambulance arrived.
DH recognises the man as one of the local homeless that sleep near his work and it appears he may have taken spice.
Now, my dilemma is I'm 50yrs old and have spent half my life in and out of hospital with asthma attacks. We still have two children living at home and we are also raising our grandson who has additional needs. DH himself is 52 and has a blood disorder that he is on long term medication for. We have tried to be careful during this pandemic, we're not shielding as DH works in an office (either alone or with one other person at a time) and grandson attends school of a morning as he is classed as vulnerable but, we keep to the rules and do as much as possible to minimise our risk.
I now feel DH should stay in our eldest sons spare room for 10 days but DH thinks I'm being ridiculous.
Am I being unreasonable?

[beefwotsitswhereareyou]

Do people who work in the NHS on the front line isolate from their families? No. This was one incident and one person. I'm sure your husband will be fine. The homeless person may or may not have covid. Chances are, he already has it . Get a test if you're worried.

[RootyT00t]

@blueberryporridge

*If you say they are different things, you are wrong, its just one persons view on what they feel should be within the boundaries, but the basic rule would cover all interactions and travel.
Not helping some one in need is the last thing we want our society to have.*

In terms of infection risk, there is a world of difference between going to school/supermarket and giving someone CPR.

No-one has said that her DH shouldn't have helped the man. What they are saying is that it would be very sensible for her DH to self-isolate for 10 days, especially given the vulnerable people in his family.

Bit of projection by PPs about the DH being traumatised too. Don't think OP has mentioned this. In fact, in her last post, she said he was fine.

OP and her DH seem to have a lot more common sense than most PPs...

Traumatised is perhaps a bit strong but I think most human beings would be affected by that without opS dramatics on top when he got home.

The poor man will be wishing he didnt bother.

[blueberryporridge]

If you say they are different things, you are wrong, its just one persons view on what they feel should be within the boundaries, but the basic rule would cover all interactions and travel.
Not helping some one in need is the last thing we want our society to have.

In terms of infection risk, there is a world of difference between going to school/supermarket and giving someone CPR.

No-one has said that her DH shouldn't have helped the man. What they are saying is that it would be very sensible for her DH to self-isolate for 10 days, especially given the vulnerable people in his family.

Bit of projection by PPs about the DH being traumatised too. Don't think OP has mentioned this. In fact, in her last post, she said he was fine.

OP and her DH seem to have a lot more common sense than most PPs...

[coulditbeanymorerubbish]

@smoothchange

Collapsed man, shallow breathing, needed chest compressions and someone put a fucking mask on him 🙄

This

[DenisetheMenace]

PinkFondantFancy

Nice, good to see these things can be discussed calmly and respectfully hmm “

Oh you are SO 2019 😁

[RootyT00t]

@Sceptre86

Your dh was very brave and I would be proud of him. That being said he was in close contact with someone who didn't have a mask on for that whole time and as you are vulnerable you were right to say he isolate away from you all. I hope that man is OK but your immediate concern is for yourself and your family, in the midst of a pandemic that is ok too.

For herself.

Not for DH who had a traumatic night and was having to isolate on top of everything else.

[Sceptre86]

Your dh was very brave and I would be proud of him. That being said he was in close contact with someone who didn't have a mask on for that whole time and as you are vulnerable you were right to say he isolate away from you all. I hope that man is OK but your immediate concern is for yourself and your family, in the midst of a pandemic that is ok too.

[Doublefaced]

@toocold54

I don't see how you can compare these things tbh?

Because everyone was wearing masks/gloves whereas not everyone in work/supermarkets will be wearing masks and/or gloves.

Are you SERIOUS?
How many tomes have you done CPR? Do you have ANY idea if the violence with which airway and stomach contents can be expelled during the procedure?

I actually can’t you seriously.
You are seriously of the opinion that an AGP such as CPR is no more risky than a trip to Asda?


The world has indeed gone mad.

[peanutbuthead]

Bloody hell. The worlds gone mad. What have we become. Head in hands

[oldegg123]

@TonMoulin

Thanks for the link.

I agree about your comments about reaching conclusions and relying on experts.
Hence my question.

You’ll note I haven’t said you were wrong. Just that I couldn’t find anything. It’s nice to be able to read something that isn’t a newspaper summary done by someone who doesn’t understand research.

So thank you.

No problem at all and sorry if my reply seemed brusque!

As you can imagine it can be a bit of nightmare right now in my field. It seems like there's just waves and waves of misinformation and lots of armchair epidemiologists making definitive statements

The very best advice I got from a colleague was to be very aware of your limitations and rely on people who are experts in their own little field.

[TonMoulin]

Thanks for the link.

I agree about your comments about reaching conclusions and relying on experts.
Hence my question.

You’ll note I haven’t said you were wrong. Just that I couldn’t find anything. It’s nice to be able to read something that isn’t a newspaper summary done by someone who doesn’t understand research.

So thank you.

[oldegg123]

[quote TonMoulin]@oldegg123, do you have any numbers showing the infection rate is high in the homeless population?

I’ve looked, found a lot of info on how they are more likely to be serioulsy ill. And statements like yours about how the virus is more likely to spread in a hostel.
But no number on infection rates. (What I found was either info that we didn’t know or anecdotal evidence that there was more people testing positive in staff than residents in some hostels)

I’d be curious to know how infection rates compare between homeless people and children in nursery (who obviously won’t be social distancing etc...).[/quote]
Where exactly did you look? To be quite frank, unless you are a systematic reviewer or are very familiar with the literature I would be wary of doing 'research' and making firm conclusions.

I'm an epidemiologist (not in infectious disease) and therefore rely on colleagues with expertise for info on this. Nethertheless it wasn't hard to find some recent publications demonstrating higher transmission in homeless populations. See recently in the lancet: www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30396-9/fulltext

I have only skimmed the article, and have not formally assessed for risk of bias. However, it is published in a high quality journal by a reputable research group.

[justcannotwithyou]

[quote TonMoulin]@justcannotwithyou
Because doing chest compressions will release much more air, in burst, very close to the face of the person doing the compressions. It’s closer to someone coughing in your face (even with a mask) than someone wo a mask in a supermarket.

I think it’s quite clear you are more likely to get in contact with droplets in the first case vs no mask but just breathing, being socially distanced etc....[/quote]
I think you may have misunderstood my post.

[TonMoulin]

@justcannotwithyou
Because doing chest compressions will release much more air, in burst, very close to the face of the person doing the compressions. It’s closer to someone coughing in your face (even with a mask) than someone wo a mask in a supermarket.

I think it’s quite clear you are more likely to get in contact with droplets in the first case vs no mask but just breathing, being socially distanced etc....

[TonMoulin]

@oldegg123, do you have any numbers showing the infection rate is high in the homeless population?

I’ve looked, found a lot of info on how they are more likely to be serioulsy ill. And statements like yours about how the virus is more likely to spread in a hostel.
But no number on infection rates. (What I found was either info that we didn’t know or anecdotal evidence that there was more people testing positive in staff than residents in some hostels)

I’d be curious to know how infection rates compare between homeless people and children in nursery (who obviously won’t be social distancing etc...).

[toocold54]

I don't see how you can compare these things tbh?

Because everyone was wearing masks/gloves whereas not everyone in work/supermarkets will be wearing masks and/or gloves.

[Hotzenplotz]

YANBU at all, apart from sending him to the son's house. Have you a shed he can sleep in, or will he just be outside in a kennel?

[justcannotwithyou]

@toocold54

And still the armchair medics keep on spouting complete and utter rubbish

Her DP was wearing a mask and gloves. The collapsed man was wearing a mask.

Tell me as a real medic how that is more riskier than being at work/supermarket/doctors surgery surrounded by many strangers?

Surrounded by many strangers also wearing a mask and not being super close and for a prolonged period of time.
The ambulance will have been at least a minute, he was told to keep going until the ambulance arrived. I don't see how you can compare these things tbh?

[toocold54]

And still the armchair medics keep on spouting complete and utter rubbish

Her DP was wearing a mask and gloves. The collapsed man was wearing a mask.

Tell me as a real medic how that is more riskier than being at work/supermarket/doctors surgery surrounded by many strangers?

[Doublefaced]

‘OP it is great you are taking the virus so seriously but he was at no higher risk doing this than going into work/the supermarket/doctors surgery etc’

And still the armchair medics keep on spouting complete and utter rubbish

[RootyT00t]

@nocoolnamesleft it is very different putting a nurse into isolation as procedure as isolating your own husband!

[RootyT00t]

@SatishTheCat I have also RTFT and agree she is being unreasonable. Why is that outrageous?

[toocold54]

DH is fine and has now said he is happy to isolate but feels bad for me as I will have our grandson

So the collapsed man had a mask on. Your DP had a mask and gloves on - the risk of transmission is low but he’s still going to isolate from his family and not go work/shopping/outside for 10 days.

OP it is great you are taking the virus so seriously but he was at no higher risk doing this than going into work/the supermarket/doctors surgery etc

[willloman]

YANBU - can he not isolate at home? He has definitely been in a high risk situation, unless he had PPE. Too many people being done in by kindness! I know of several old ladies who have not mentioned that they are still covid + to their neighbours/relatives who are 'popping by' to have a cuppa and drop off the groceries, newspaper, etc etc. You cannot tell by looking who has covid or not you need to act as if everyone has it. 10 days is not a long time in the greater scheme of things.

[oldegg123]

[quote TonMoulin]@oldegg123
Could you explain why being homeless makes that man high risk for covid??.

I mean if he was a nurse on a covid ward, I would agree with you. But why is being homeless a risk?[/quote]
I did give reasons of a previous post in this thread but again:

Being homeless is associated with quite a few factors that would increase risk of catching COVID: squatting in overcrowded housing, sheltering in doorways with others, not being able to practise hand hygiene/or use clean cloth masks, needing to access crowded refuge space and food banks, and of course intravenous drug use with non sterile needles. The homeless population are also likely to be immnocompromised due to malnutrition, cold exposure and drug/alcohol abuse, meaning if they did pick up, more likely to be infectious due to higher viral load.

It is absolutely freezing out and homeless people aren't happily camping in the nice fresh air. They're sadly having to live in overcrowded, squalid conditions, mixing with many people who are also high risk. This is why in the early stages of COVID the government tried to relocate the homeless to hotels.