just been told I have to go back to the office

[Sarah510]

and I don't want to!!!!! Have been wfh since lockdown and I love it. The freedom of it, and just not having to spend 2+hours commuting. I really thought I would be allowed to keep wfh as my job is not customer facing - I can do everything on teams, and a lot of it is with people in the far east so most is virtual anyway. But my team leader is the leader of another team as well, and she said to me today that she has put me on the rota for coming back to the office. I tried to say that I was happy to help out at busy times but that my priority had to be my own job, and that that wasn't people facing, and that it was going to be difficult to have these team meetings in a large office setting. She was unmovable though. I feel it's unfair. I mean, I'm not on that team, I'm a separate team, just me, the TL and a part-time person who is shielding so will not be coming back. I know people will slate me on here, but I really thought that things would change after lockdown. Team Leader is very anti wfh - she had denied requests even before Covid. She seems to be oldfashioned - like she always made a point of checking if I was in at 9am and telling me off if I was 5 mins late kind of thing. Never mind that I've been working weekends, late nights, early mornings since wfh, she just seems to want everyone back in the office under her watchful eye even though everyone is saying productivity is way up since we have been wfh.

Feeling miserable :( I guess I can 'see how it goes' and maybe put in a formal request to wfh. I tried to say to her that it was matter of being flexible but she's just not - she said no.

[BrightYellowDaffodil]

like she always made a point of checking if I was in at 9am and telling me off if I was 5 mins late kind of thing

There's your issue. You're 5 minutes late. She doesn't trust you.

Any manager who decides they don't trust their staff because they are late occasionally (I don't mean habitual lateness here) is a crap manager. A good manager wouldn't even think twice about it.

Oh boo hoo you. Think about all the people who have lost their job's [sic] entirely

Does that mean that no-one should ever be unhappy about anything ever again?

[LondonJax]

I think WFH has to be a two way street. I was very lucky in my last job before having DS. I worked for a council who couldn't just spend tax payers cash on leasing another building when we outgrew the one we were in. So they got as many people as possible set up as WFH. I worked for 3 days a week from home. That left 'my' desk free for my colleague who worked 2 days from home. My job was very much PC and phone based with occasional meetings so I just needed a table - didn't matter where.

The council installed a separate line in everyone's house who was WFH so the council would pay for the phone bills. The bills were checked so you couldn't make personal calls but that was fine - they were paying, you didn't take the piss. That number was linked to your office phone so you just diverted it when you WFH - so you got all your office calls at home. The day you went back to the office you undiverted the calls. When your working day finished you'd switch off the ringer so you weren't disturbed at home - people could leave messages on voicemail as they would if you had left the office. The point is no-one knew the difference. They rang your office number, you answered from home.

I'd attend meetings wherever they took place then go back to my 'home office'.

Because I didn't have the commute, I'd work more than the 8.30am to 5.30pm day. Not all the time - I'm not a saint! It's lovely to stop work at 5.30pm and not have a commute. However, it's easy to finish off a report at 7pm when you've not got to worry about catching a train and dinner's cooking whilst you work so if it needed doing, it got done whilst you were in work mode. And in bad weather it was a god-send. No-one calling in saying 'they're stuck in snow' when you can switch on the PC and phone and get on with it! This was 14 years ago btw so I can't understand business managers saying it can't be done. It can - my council did - and it worked.

But, the down side is that those little snippets you get when you go to make a coffee don't happen and they can be invaluable in business. When you work from home you work in a silo, when you're in an office it's more like a spider's web. Those 'gossip' moments are how you find out a new project is being spoken about or that there may be a problem with something a bit down the line but no-one's really thinking about it yet.

I think a week in the office, a week WFH is great or two days WFH or whatever each week. The peace and quiet helps a lot when you need to concentrate but the 'not in a silo' way of working helps the business grow. A bit of flexibility all round makes a big difference.

As for the 'others in the office resent people who WFH' - well, the same thing applies to those people. You chose your job, knowing you couldn't do it from anywhere other than the work place. You just have to get on with it. It's not a reason for an organisation to pay huge leasing bills just to have 'present' office workers.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

it appears I'm £22,950.00 worse off per year than my colleagues who are on the same grade and WFH... Just a thought! Yep! One that all employers will be having now they can actually masure the real cost of wfh to their business!

It would be sensible of them to offer appropriate jobs as a wfh post that takes into consideration the oncosts of working from home and include the possibility of a commuting uplift, maybe with part time wfh too. That way everyone can be satisfied.

All salaries and pay rises etc will be adjusted accordingly! Eventually!

But, apart from the expense of making the changes, there is no reason why not!

[2155User]

I do think it's a big shame that more companies aren't taking this opportunity to be more flexible and welcome WFH.

More people WFH would be smaller buildings need meaning less rent/bills etc so it really does make sense in the long run

OP YANBU

[dontdisturbmenow]

Any manager who decides they don't trust their staff because they are late occasionally (I don't mean habitual lateness here) is a crap manager
Except it is often not a one off or the only issue bringing commitment in question. It's usually an accumulation of a number of things.

[Laffinalltheway]

Frazzled13

I don't see why your solution to that is to insist everyone else spends that much on commuting as well. Do you also resent those who can walk to work and therefore have extra time and money because of it. The flip side of people saying "you chose a job where you have to be in the office, stop complaining" is "you chose a job and could presumably have looked up those commuting costs before you accepted it, stop complaining."

I'm comparing it like for like with people in my section, theirs and mine travelling costs and 15 hours of commuting per week for me. Yes, I'm in the London area and think the least that can be done would be to stop paying the London Weighting for those WFH and distribute it as a kind of attendance at the office bonus. Is that unreasonable?

[LondonJax]

The DVLA are taking on 400 extra staff to clear the backlog which has accrued while their staff have been WFH. The passport service has a backlog of 400,000 cases which have also come from their staff WFH.

No @9PointsOnMyLicence - they weren't working from home. They were at home checking emails or whatever. If they were working from home, if they'd been able to physically do their work from home, there wouldn't be a backlog. So that only proves WFH only works if the systems are in place properly.

It's like working in a call centre. If that can be done from home, the calls get answered, the query gets answered. If you need access to files to answer it and they're at the office, you can't do the job at home.

Presumably the DVLA don't have a link to the system that can be accessed at home or the actual application forms aren't available to their workers at home. Otherwise it should be a simple data input job which could be done at home or anywhere there's a linked computer.

[OverTheRainbow88]

@LucaFritz

That argument can be used in any situation, doesn’t mean people shouldn’t try and better their lives as others are less well off/have ‘worse situations’

I told my dad I had tonsillitis the other day, just in passing as he called , he replied.. “well... has prostate cancer”.

[dontdisturbmenow]

The problem is noone WFH admits they are using the time to do their house work, spending a bit if time in the garden, getting up late and log in at 10am. Everyone says they work even harder and longer hours.

Sadly, managers know that it's far from being the case. Some will be very diligent whilst others aren't. The problem is trying to manage a staff who you believe not to put their weight is much harder when they are at home than in the office.

I wouldn't be surprised if companies started to introduce software that checks how long you remain logged in, and every activity done. I bet when that happens, there'll be much fewer people as keen to work from home.

[Youngatheart00]

@Laffinalltheway I get your rationale, but I don’t think it’s altogether practical. Unless people are taking permanent lifestyle decisions based on working patterns during a pandemic - ie moving home away from
London / a City, the London weighting compensates for higher property costs and overall cost of living, not necessarily specifically the commute.

Surely the wfh lot could argue they are providing their own heat / light / power - not so much of an issue now but what about when winter kicks in and the central heating is running all day every day?

I personally really miss the social side of the office and am finding wfh very draining and depressing. A balance would be great.

[OverTheRainbow88]

@Youngatheart00

My family company provides an allowance for heating and electricity for those who wfh

[ilovesooty]

Is she quite à bit younger than you by any chance?

[Timeforanotherusername]

The problem is noone WFH admits they are using the time to do their house work, spending a bit if time in the garden, getting up late and log in at 10am. Everyone says they work even harder and longer hours.

I wish!

[Sarah510]

Quote "The problem is noone WFH admits they are using the time to do their house work, spending a bit if time in the garden, getting up late and log in at 10am. Everyone says they work even harder and longer hours.

Sadly, managers know that it's far from being the case. Some will be very diligent whilst others aren't. The problem is trying to manage a staff who you believe not to put their weight is much harder when they are at home than in the office.

I wouldn't be surprised if companies started to introduce software that checks how long you remain logged in, and every activity done. I bet when that happens, there'll be much fewer people as keen to work from home."

The thing is - how many hours a day do office workers spend chatting at the kettle, playing solitaire, ordering things online, basically 'putting in the hours'. So what if people can do a bit of housework, or put the dinner on - surely the end result is what's important??? Sitting staring at a screen when you've done all your work ? That will be the change. Office work per se is going to be phased out. It will be task based, rather than putting in the hours - unless you're on reception, or on phones for people actually present in front of you. Even that is going online, especially with Covid. We've had to move to email for all queries as there has been nobody physically in the office.

[LondonJax]

@Laffinalltheway I do think that, if WFH becomes a viable, permanent way of working, you will see differentials in salaries. In future you may get a advertised job saying '£40,000 salary if you're office based or, if you prefer to WFH we'll set it up for you but the salary will be £30,000 per year plus expenses when we need you to attend the office.'

Because, if jobs don't get advertised like that, how do you allow for world wide WFH? For example, if you can WFH permanently then why would a UK company employ someone in the UK, paying £40,000 per year when they could have someone in a country where £30,000 is a comparable salary?

DH worked for five years for a Scandinavian company. He went to the host country about a dozen times in those five years. But he didn't get paid what they paid their office based staff - our cost of living was less, he had no commute. So he got the UK average plus travelling expenses. Still no commuting costs though so it was very well paid!

So I can see the time coming when there will be a salary x and a salary y depending on where you want to work if the company is flexible to that.

[dodgeballchamp]

Honestly all jobs that aren’t customer facing should give people the freedom to wfh, we’re so wedded to a culture of presenteeism and why? Why is it bad if someone wants to enjoy a leisurely breakfast and sit around in their pants while working, as long as work is being done? Work life balance is important. We should all have the power to shape how we want to work.

[LondonJax]

@dontdisturbmenow - some people are honest about WFH! The IT person who set up everyone at the council I worked for (see my earlier post) admitted it suited him very well for 'work life balance'.

He had two school age kids. His wife, who worked outside elsewhere, dropped the kids at a child minder then went to work. He picked them up from school at 3pm, did his work in between their needs and fed them around 5pm. His wife got home at 6pm and he then worked, head down, until 8pm to make up the time.

His boss didn't mind, the council didn't mind. Why? Because people were still in the council offices at 8pm/9pm at night. Having him at his PC at that time meant they didn't have to employ someone on a different shift. His day time 'slack' could be taken up by the others in the team, they had their slack times too.

It's about being honest and managers encouraging a grown up conversation about how your day works. One of the people DH works 'with' is in Denmark. Her kids went back to school a few months ago. She had to pick them up at 12pm so was missing from 11.30am to 1pm on the school run. Her company didn't mind - she'd have had to do the same or would have been stressed out in the office if she'd been there. Better she's missing for an hour or so than her mind is elsewhere, she's calling a child minder or her DH or whoever trying to get child care organised. And she appreciated that because she's a grown up.

You'll always have people who take the mickey WFH or in the office You find a way of getting rid of those people and keep your loyal staff.

[catgirl1976]

YANBU.

I work in HR and have been wfh since lockdown started. There is not a single aspect of my role that cannot be done from home. Across the organisation productivity is up and sickness is at the lowest level it has ever been. And yet we must return for reasons unknown.

Work is an activity, It is not a place and companies need to move with the times and embrace this.

[averythinline]

I don't think you should wait until you are back to request flexible working.. do it now.. you have the evidence it works.
Make sure you copy in HR as well can't just be her decision. I would probably copy her manager in as well.. make it formal.

I would also ask for their COVID-19 risk assessments too.. they have a duty of care to you as well.

In the meantime I would look for another company... those in other roles that need to go in really are not your concern...

[heartsonacake]

YABVU. It doesn’t matter if you can do your job perfectly well at home; that’s totally irrelevant. She wants you back in the office so you need to go back, whether you agree or not and whether or not you like it.

I tried to say to her that it was matter of being flexible but she's just not - she said no.

I can’t believe you said this to her. That’s so rude and really insubordinate. It’s not a matter of being flexible, she doesn’t need to be.

[Staplemaple]

and think the least that can be done would be to stop paying the London Weighting for those WFH and distribute it as a kind of attendance at the office bonus. Is that unreasonable?

Absolutely fair if people are choosing not to travel in and to WFH.

[Staplemaple]

Most people who seem to hate their managers is because they say no to things, and don't always let them have their own way, funny that isn't it. If you're on a rota then it sounds like you won't be in all of the time, and if you are, then time to look for another job if you don't like it.

[Beach11]

Be grateful that you currently have a job and that you have been able to WFH!

[QueenCT]

@dontdisturbmenow I wish! Everything I do is on view, home or office. My personal time is monitored (I try and have less than 10 mins a day so that's for making a brew or nipping to the loo)
My breaks and lunch are timed, and if I'm late logging on, I'm marked late

[Staplemaple]

If you're late to work in a supermarket, most will dock your wages. Where I used to work, it you were even 1 minute late you would have 30 mins pay taken away, why should it be different for office workers? Unless it's something truly unavoidable, it's reasonable for a manager to not be overly keen on lateness.