School will be closed at lunchtime one day a week from Sept

[Ilovecranberries]

The school (primary) had just informed the parents that they will be closing at lunchtime on one day a week from September to facilitate "planning".
I don't even know what to say. AIBU to think it is ridiculous? I am a single working parent, not sure how I am supposed to work around this. Extra childcare for these 3.5 hours at the local childminders rates will be £56 a week (two children here). Or two grand a year post tax. I probably will be told I am BU (I probably am), just very anxious right now.

Unfortunately that is how businesses work. Often in businesses there are cases where some people get paid tremendous amounts of money for no added value. Some get found out some don't. The business model should allow teachers to teach that is what they are educated to do. Business managers should manage money, statistics, graphs and paperwork. In times where you are working 100 plus hours it is exam time?

Making them work in the holidays unpaid is perfectly acceptable for a business and forcing them to pay out for childcare for the privilege so they are out of pocket. Making them get up at 2am to start fasting even though they are not muslim is acceptable for a business model of a school?

100 hours is to fulfil the duties that are required by DfE and I've not been asked to do anything more by my boss. I do the work that is required of me.

You have lost me walker1891. Please explain your comments? So I can try and work out what you are saying if you put it into context i.e I work in a secondary school but have to... I may understand?

My friends worked in a school ran as a business where teachers are told to teach. They were told to teach a summer school for 4 weeks without pay. They had to put their children in childcare to enable them to work unpaid during the summer. That is the business model of their school - unpaid work.

Said friends also have to observe Ramadan even though they are not muslim and are made to get up at 2am and fast during the day. That is the business model of the school.

The business model expects far more from the teachers and exploits them far more in my experience.

Did they work for a Free or Faith school?

They worked in a school that prevented them from eating for 18/19 hours of the day both in and out of work. No workplace should be preventing staff from eating.

You did not answer the question posed?

I didn't because I felt there is no justification for making people work unpaid or preventing them from eating in the workplace or at home for such excessive periods.

No wonder you felt no reason to answer the question. I am guessing they worked for a Free school which is completely different to what the OP is complaining about:
They can extend the school day or year: most use this freedom to add more time for learning or extra-curricular activity.
They have to offer a broad and balanced curriculum, but this does not have to be the National Curriculum: some schools use this freedom to teach in an innovative way, whether that is focusing on STEM subjects or taking on a different approach to learning, such as outdoor expeditionary lessons.
They have more flexibility in the way they employ their staff: some choose to offer teachers performance related pay to keep and reward their best staff while others choose to bring in outside expertise by employing people without traditional teaching qualifications.
They decide how they spend their full budget: they receive all of their funding direct from central government, which means they have complete independence over how it is spent
They have independent governance: free schools are run by an Academy Trust, and are independent of Local Authority oversight

The business model for a Free school is to totally different to what I was talking about!

Nope, your explanation is unnecessary. They have the same teaching contract that I have with the same hours, it is just an expectation from the head. The local authority school the head worked in (C of E by the way if you would like to be smug) expected staff in and said they were 'allowed' 4 weeks holiday only and expected in at all other times. One of my friends was told this at interview and walked out and said no thank you. My other friends were not told this at interview and therefore were made to do when they were employed there.

@Endoftether2000

Gooseberrycake I accept what you are saying but in perspective. Teachers have not seen any financial loss in this Pandemic. They have still been paid from March through to July to do a proportion of what they are contracted to do. People who work, have seen their childrens education decimated. People who are involved in education have been told they need to be back to some near normality in September. Us as Taxpayers need you all to be on board to accommodate it! Yes some Teachers will have to have worked more than others. That would appear to be a unfair balance on the share of the workload during Covid by your Head teachers. Our local school were on a rota which from what I understand they went in once a fortnight. The only time those teachers contracted children were right near the end. Reason somebody had made a comment on Facebook about the lack of the following. Contact with the children. Not following the advisory about work being able to collect for the children. Not having any structured teaching plans for parents to teach the children. The list is endless! It is not really water under the bridge as unfortunately like businesses, Teachers may need to put in the hours they have been paid for and not worked now that they can. From your post it would appear that you are already unhappy about putting in more effort for online classes. It would appear that the unions and the Teachers are the prevention to honest working people being able to return to work as normal. Like they have been told to do by the Government. The schools need to be operational as per pre Covid. If they are not, the economy may come to a total crashing halt. If it does the pensions you are promised will no doubt also become at risk.

I’d like to add that teachers often work far more hours than they are paid for (average primary full time is approx 50 - 60 hours in term time) like people in other jobs to fulfil the role as best they can. Nobody cared pre Covid that teachers should work the hours they were paid for and workload should be addressed. You can’t have it both ways.

During lockdown some teachers were able to work just the hours specified in their directed time probably for the first time in their career and there are complaints from outside the sector. If this is the case then parents should take it up with the head as every teacher was directed to undertake tasks from their head teacher. There is very little autonomy in the average state school now so it’s not teachers blocking the full return to school or refusing to work full time.

Many teachers are parents and will be affected by shorter days just like every other parent either by paying for childcare or sending their children home with a family member. My own children can’t even come into my classroom due to mixing bubbles even when the classroom is empty so I will pay like everyone else for additional childcare.

There is a massive recruitment and retention crisis in teaching and excessive workload is one factor feeding into this. It isn’t a case of teachers not wanting to put effort into planning remote lessons it is a fact that there will be no time as expectations in the classroom will not be reduced and the same lesson from the classroom can’t just be replicated to send home. There will be a tipping point for some people who will just leave to protect their own health even in this climate of reduced job opportunities.

By your reckoning then endoftether I can have at least the next year off (and the rest of my colleagues also). Been at it 20 years and have worked 40 - 50 hours a week as a minimum for the entirety. And some weeks much much more.
I'm not about to justify my work during lockdown to you but it was A LOT and for the last month I have been teaching a bubble (not my usual year group) as well as setting and marking the home learning for my class.This is by no means unusual.
I am a teacher and still regard myself as an 'honest working person' oh and I'm a tax payer too!

I've just said this to someone!

If we have to pay back hours then we can also get them paid back to us so after so long teaching I'm sure I'm owed at least 1 years paid leave with all the excess I've worked.

I can't wait!

So what you are saying is that your friends instead of getting the standard holiday entitlement they are only allowed 4 weeks per year? And they cannot eat during Ramadan and it is a state school?

That would be an exception compared to most places of work and most schools.

In general most things just result from market forces. If we have 3 of 4m 4m out of work soon it will become easier to recruit ex teachers back including ex teachers whose husbands are laid off from other work and cannot get another job if we have a massive great depression. It is not clear yet what will happen

I very much doubt ex teachers will return. Those I know who left did so due to poor pay and working hours. They have moved on to other careers where they transferred their skills. Some I know who left UK schools have stayed in the profession but two are now teaching in Sydney and one in Vancouver. Significantly better pay and a fraction of the hours . It’s a similar problem in the nursing profession.

It may be a bit harder to leave the UK to work abroad but we shall see. I know that my children's father like many others is happy teaching and that my mother taught classes of 40 plus 6 year olds with no teaching assistant after world war II in the 1940s - needs much. We will all pull together in this pandemic and I am sure all will be well.

I know a few teachers who left teaching to do other jobs and several who have retired. Not one of them is willing to go back into the classroom even though the money is more than they are paid now and the holiday entitlement is greater for those who are still working. They all cite excessive workload and demands of the job as the reason why. They all see a return to class teaching as a last resort. Obviously this is just within the small circle of people I know but I don’t think it’s unique.

There may be a flow of ex teachers back to schools to tide themselves over if they are made redundant but I bet many of them won’t stick around any longer than is necessary. The retention rate for teachers is very poor in the first 5 years of qualifying so it will be interesting to see how many people from this group will return to teaching.

There has also been a lot of people talking about TAs resigning on Mumsnet which is very worrying as this role is traditionally well sought after for childcare reasons during the holidays as well as people enjoying working in schools.

It always pisses me off the way people on these sort of threads pop up to say 'schools are not childcare'.

If you're a single parent out of work, you try telling the DWP that. You are expected to be available for work the minute your youngest turns 5.

School is childcare - it’s care for DC’s during educational hours.

So far then we have 40-50 and 50-60 additional hours a week being worked. Is this in Specific years such as SAT classes? Or is it across the board of class ages? This is now out of interest. You posters may do this but by pareto it could be 20% of teachers putting in the 80% and in the same respect people in these type of sectors have no interest in issues faced by people in other sectors.

Good point on benefits - I expect a judicial review might succeed if schools are not providing normal school hours but DWP expects single mothers of children to be working full time in term time once children are 5.

www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/18/25-of-teachers-in-england-work-more-than-60-hours-a-week-study

says:

A quarter of teachers in England work more than 60 hours a week, far in excess of their counterparts elsewhere in the world, research reveals.

The study by the UCL Institute of Education said that five years of government initiatives to reduce excessive workload, introduced by three different education secretaries, have done nothing to cut the total number of hours worked by teachers which have remained high for two decades.

Researchers found that teachers in England work 47 hours a week on average during term time, including marking, lesson planning and administration, going up to about 50 hours in the summer during the exam season.

That is eight hours more than teachers in comparable industrialised OECD countries, though the disparity with some countries is even greater. While the average full-time secondary school teacher in England in 2018 worked 49 hours per week, the equivalent teacher in Finland clocked up 34 hours.

Teachers in England have 'unmanageable' job – global survey
Read more
The study revealed that two out of five teachers in England usually work in the evening and one in 10 at the weekend. Full-time secondary teachers report they spend almost as much time on management, administration, marking and lesson planning (20.1 hours a week) as they do teaching (20.5 hours).

The findings are based on data from more than 40,000 primary and secondary teachers in England collected between 1992 and 2017. The lead author, Prof John Jerrim said: “This is the first study to attempt to track the working hours of teachers over such a long period of time.

Which Xenia I have always thought when they are Five is there an abundance of part time roles that fit in with School hours I think not! It as though when they get to Five they can look after themselves. When I had my daughter the workplace only had to be flexible until she turned five. I never understood that!