To hope the current economic situation will educate some people

[Hingeandbracket]

I keep seeing social media posts from people who have never been out of work before. Quite often they express surprise that they have applied for a few jobs and either heard nothing back or been rejected.
Some people similarly are amazed at the actual (low) level of benefits and how difficult and demeaning the process of claiming can be.

AIBU to hope that at least some of these people will now have som sympathy for others in the same situation, now and in future?

[ZeroSumTrap]

No evidence that these folk (the high earners you know via social media) lack sympathy for ppl who usually have harder time in the job market.

You said you want them "educated". It isn't a kind way to describe how you want them to be changed. That sounds like you have a "just deserts" attitude towards them.

My SM contacts aren't high earners or people from privileged background. So maybe I just can't understand what OP encounters.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

YABU. You know they won't be more sympathetic, there'll always be a reason why they're more deserving and the rest of the people on UC are scroungers who should be forcibly marched into the fields to pick fruit.

[Hingeandbracket]

@ZeroSumTrap

It sounds like you are happy at their misfortune, OP. I can't approve of that.

Incorrect - I am absolutely not saying that at all.

[ZeroSumTrap]

It sounds like you are happy at their misfortune, OP. I can't approve of that.

[SeonaSeona]

I agree with you OP.

Another thing - during COVID the government actually swiftly increased benefit amounts, paused the debt deductions that can be up to 30%, and scrapped the cap on how much renters can be given for rent (cap often lower than even the lowest of rents in some areas).

Call me cynical, but I think this was less about support and more about trying to convince all those new to UC that it's absolutely 'fine' and enough..

To think new claimants are still shocked about the new levels of support, well..

Like you I hope views will be changed.

[FirTree31]

I hope so OP, not necessarily through losing jobs, but because more people are talking about it. As PP very rightly pointed out, most people claiming 'benefits' are in work, In some ways you could view this as government assistance to the organisation, they bulster employee income because salary is low and not enough to live on. As a side note, there's also systemic failings in areas such as CMS not enforcing appropriate payments from absent parents. Due to low or completely missing payments, many parents although working are topped up by DWP for prolonged periods.

[BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup]

@ivykaty44 exactly

They don't realise those on benefits long term live differently to them.

[ivykaty44]

What happens though is confusion

The recently unemployed can’t believe that “ they’ve worked all their lives, paid their taxes, and have never asked for a penny before” now can’t understand why they have so little money in benefit

They then decide in their heads that scroungers have taken their share
Immigrants have stolen their portion
There must be a two tier system where scroungers get £££££ and they themselves get £

[JaniceWebster]

you don't need to wait... just look at the attitude of people currently on furlough.

Some stayed home to look after their children because they had no choice or alternative.
Some found all the available work they could find within the conditions of their furlough.
Some took it as a paid holiday.

Guess who will be in a better position when the redundancy letter turns up.

[Hingeandbracket]

@Fairyliz

Tbh op I don’t think you sound very nice. Are you really pleased that people have lost their jobs and gone onto benefits? That’s what it sounds like.

TBH you don't sound so great either. That is neither what I said, not what I meant.

When I was previously out of work it took me 3 months to get a job. I found out later that I nearly didn't get that job as despite appearing to have all the required qualities, the boss thought there must be something wrong with me if I couldn't get a job for 3 months. Thankfully a colleague persuaded him, I got the job and stayed for 6 years and 3 promotions. That boss had never been out of work so he had no idea what it can be like.

I keep hearing how easy it is to get a job "if you really try" - usually spouted by people who haven't had to try.

My only point was that perhaps this current situation will have an educational effect for some of those people.

[Fairyliz]

Tbh op I don’t think you sound very nice. Are you really pleased that people have lost their jobs and gone onto benefits? That’s what it sounds like.

[Oldsu]

@Hingeandbracket

the fact remains the old benefit system was too generous
Generous? Fuck me I have seen everything now.

So you don't think a benefit system that's allows people to have no limit on savings (which was what my post referred to) is more generous than one that only allows Under £16k before entitlement is stopped.

[HeIenaDove]

Family Credit advert 1991

[Pippin2028]

I think thanks to the paper and a few tv shows, people think benefits was an easy way. I don't envy life on benefits, it's horrible having to watch every penny, not been able to afford basic things and constantly struggling and this going around in circles. I have a relative on long term benefits, i dont think she can hold down a job and she hasn't even got a spare £5 at the end of the month and Long term this can have an awful affect on your wellbeing and mental health. No one knows what's in store these next months but I do hope people will become more understanding and know all it takes is a few life events and things to go wrong and you can easily be at the bottom.

[CorianderLord]

I'm amazed that there are people who haven't been rejected from jobs before. It took me three months of applications before I got a job after graduation

[dontdisturbmenow]

Everyone is going to struggle when you first lose your job. Its s horrible time for everyone.

The test is more what happens weeks/months later, when some will keep going, get up way, check the adverts, take the time to respond writing individual letters/email with each application, make phone calls, review their CV and continue to give it 100% despite feeling low and pessimistic after many rejections, as opposed to those who will just give up, so the strict minimum in the quickest time and spend the rest of the day being lazy.

In the longer term, the former will get there, the latter will moan that it's not their fault and blame everything but themselves.

Its very hard to keep going when all you get is rejection but those who will get out of it are those who will keep trying, and of course, the few that will just get lucky.

[PurpleHaze101]

I once posted on here years ago about my relationship with dp when dp lost his job. I was told he was a waster and a lay about and I should LTB because everyone could get a job if they really tried.

you try being over 50, going to interviews, being told you're overqualified so why do you want this job (?), being turned down every single day, dropping your CV everywhere only to be kicked back all the time

I got told on the thread that if he really cared he would just 'clean houses' or 'iron' and he was a CF living off me.

I hope some people think before they post next time about people without jobs. It's soul destroying. Dp started his own business in the end and it's taking off slowly and I'm proud of him for doing so but the absolute evil and bitterness on this site towards people without work made me leave the site for years!

[Hingeandbracket]

the fact remains the old benefit system was too generous
Generous? Fuck me I have seen everything now.

[Oldsu]

@flirtygirl

Oldsu the old system was never generous.
Tax credits were not introduced as benefits, it's recent ideology that has labelled them benefits, hence the no savings limit in tax credits.

All the other old or legacy benefits have always had savings limits.

Also the level of benefit has always been tightly controlled. There was nothing generous about them. Austerity and wages not rising since the early 2000s is the problem not the level of benefits. If legacy benefits look generous then the person viewing that has a problem. Really £39 per week income support or job seeker is generous.

People really need to educate themselves but this country has the awful mentality of lets see them suffer. Or if I can't have something nobody can. Too many in this country vote to make others poorer. Horrible mentality.

TC and WTC are means are means tested benefits and always have been only difference is that they are paid by HMRC not the DWP, they are a tax free top up for low wages, people claiming them had to meet certain conditions just like other benefits and are one of the larger elements of the welfare bill, not ideology - fact. And of you don't think being able to claim a means tested state benefit while having 1000s in the bank is not generous I would like to know what is, even my DHs contribution based state pension which is taxable is classed as a benefit because its part of the welfare bill and is an income replacement benefit just like TC and UC.

[flirtygirl]

Oldsu the old system was never generous.
Tax credits were not introduced as benefits, it's recent ideology that has labelled them benefits, hence the no savings limit in tax credits.

All the other old or legacy benefits have always had savings limits.

Also the level of benefit has always been tightly controlled. There was nothing generous about them. Austerity and wages not rising since the early 2000s is the problem not the level of benefits. If legacy benefits look generous then the person viewing that has a problem. Really £39 per week income support or job seeker is generous.

People really need to educate themselves but this country has the awful mentality of lets see them suffer. Or if I can't have something nobody can. Too many in this country vote to make others poorer. Horrible mentality.

[Oldsu]

@HeIenaDove

UC is too much the other way *@Oldsu* Do you really want people in fear of sanctions going into work and spreading Covid19

Considering you are older thats well brave lol

Because a lot of people on UC are IN work.

I didn't say people on UC are not in work, and I haven't said I want people
to be sanctioned, but the fact remains the old benefit system was too generous and that's why a lot of people don't want to move over, I also think there should be a middle way. But of course there are 1000s of people not on any benefits that are having to go back to work, worried about their own health and other peoples, I am one of them, if I refused to do it I would be sanctioned as well by my employer I would lose my job

[HeIenaDove]

You got your question answered on page 1 @Hingeandbracket

[HeIenaDove]

UC is too much the other way @Oldsu Do you really want people in fear of sanctions going into work and spreading Covid19

Considering you are older thats well brave lol


Because a lot of people on UC are IN work.

[Oldsu]

I do understand that people are unhappy about UC, but I am on a benefit site at the moment where someone is still on WTC and CTC asking if an inheritance of 30k will affect it, the replies thus far is no it wont with someone saying they had 75k and another 80k without it affecting their Tax credit benefits, as its not taxable income why on earth did we have system where someone can have that much and still claim benefits, its a joke, no wonder people want to stay on it and not have to claim UC.

[tectonicplates]

It would be nice to think so, but unfortunately people have short memories and it won't last.