To think that my works idea of flexible furlough is bs?

[Pieface123]

Now I'm not too sure what other work places are doing with bringing people back to work, but heres how it's looking from my end.
Work in a hotel, have been furloughed since March.
Recieved an email today asking us to agree to flexible furlough. Straight after I had a conversation with the boss about how I would need time to organise childcare, he replied saying they weren't looking at bringing anyone back just yet.

"Following the UK Government’s recent announcement in relation to employees and the introduction of flexible furlough, we are writing further to your original agreement to be placed on furlough from 1st July 2020.

The new extension of furlough is called a Flexible Furlough Arrangement and will take effect from 1st July 2020. This new arrangement requires you to work any number but not more of your usual working hours per week on any day of the week needed, with the remaining number of hours continuing as furlough leave. The date on which this flexible furlough will come to an end will be dependent on a number of external factors, however, will not continue past 31st October 2020.
"

Forgive me if I am wrong, but how on earth can I arrange childcare when they dont complete the rotas for the week Friday-Thursday until thursday evenings? This is essentially turning my job into a zero hour contract style of working no?
Previously I had 3 set shifts each week and was asked about others due to needing childcare.

AIBU to think they cant do this? This isn't the rota i agreed to when I signed the contract- verbal agreement but it has never been deviated from.
Or YABU everyone has had a shit time and it is what it is

[PuppyMonkey]

I think it just sounds like the business is trying to survive in extraordinary times and maybe you have to appreciate this is going to be a long haul back to normal.

[TARSCOUT]

verbal agreement
This is the issue. How long have you been working to verbal agreement?

[CheshireChav]

Surely you've been on furlough for a little while not paying for childcare you should be able to sort out childcare now knowing you will earn between 80 and 100percent of your wages depending on the work given to you.

This, you've been getting 80% pay and not paying childcare for at least the last 4wks - you should have saved enough to pay full childcare when you go back, even if part of your wage is only 80%

Sorry if that sounds harsh, the title of your post has irked me slightly and I think you sound, to use a MN word, a little entitled.

[underneaththeash]

A verbal contract for the days you;ve worked previously counts in legal terms.
I'd email and say that you're really looking forward to the return to work and are expecting to work your usual hours, as per the previous contract. However, you may be able to be flexible (if you want to be), but you would need at least a week's notice to arrange childcare.

[whatthehelldowecare]

Whilst furloughed you are still employed under your contracted hours. Just not required to work. I'd very much expect that the original furlough agreement had a clause which gave your employer the right to bring you back to work at any point, without notice. They could be more accommodating, yes.. but they're not being unreasonable

[Pieface123]

We lost our childminder so would need to find another one
There aren't any in this area who are able to be flexible at the moment, they all want to have set days to work which is fair enough
I dont think its unreasonable to want to know when I am working?
It took a month when I started to find suitable childcare. With corona still ongoing everyone and their aunt are looking for childcare atm

I know it is unprecedented times but if they had turned around and said "flexible working is a must " before I started I would never have signed the contract. Hence the verbal agreement, it works for both sides.
Now it doesnt work for both sides :/

[Todaythiscouldbe]

I know it is unprecedented times but if they had turned around and said "flexible working is a must " before I started I would never have signed the contract. Hence the verbal agreement, it works for both sides.
Now it doesnt work for both sides :/
But you don't know they require flexible working. They have set out the legal position for the furlough scheme. Speak to them before jumping to conclusions.

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

I suspect you have misread it OP.

My expectation would be that you could be called upon to work any of your normal shifts (or none).

You need to find childcare as if you were returning to your normal hours, and use the furlough money you've saved to cover the shortfall.

If your wage previously barely covered the childcare, the 80% furlough money with no childcare for 4 weeks would have been essentially free money. You now only need to cover a 20% shortfall to meet your childcare costs so that furlough money should essentially cover it for 3 or 4 months no? If you've spent it that is your problem.

[user1487194234]

Unfortunately it sounds as if you will have to arrange childcare,or ask to stay on furlough, or take unpaid leave or resign.

Its hard, but at the end of the day your childcare issues are not your employer's problem.

Are you not pleased still to have your job

[Bebbanburger]

I've just had the same thing. My manager rang and said he wanted me back on the 1st July, so I said fine except it would be the 2nd as I don't work Wednesdays and he said "you do now!". Rang my other manager and she just kept saying "we all.have to be flexible". They sound really fraught. But if they are busy they should just get me back in properly. I am.going back on Tuesday and.dpnt know how long I will be in for as they have said it is to.be part time,.but from what they have said there is a huge pile of work to.do. I'm so irritated with them..my kids are teenagers so no childcare issues but I would like to know how long they expect me to be in for.

[StickersandStripes]

Where I work because employers have no idea how much trade there will be, every single person unfurloughed has to be flexible due to all rotas being done at short notice. These aren't normal times so you may have to suck it up for now.

[Casualbride]

Why are you assuming the work won’t be on your normal days? What have they said when you’ve raised this with them?

[KaptenKrusty]

That’s how flexible furlough works tho haven’t you read the government guidelines? I’m staying off til end of August at my job / but some staff are back - we are only open 3 days not 5 - last month we paid people full pay who were working even though they only were back 3 days - this month we only have to pay them for the 3 days and get tI claim their 2 days back from the government. But the rest of us who are still not working are only getting 60% money from gov and job expected to top up by 20%

This has been widely known about for ages that this change was coming!

You may not even go back for a few months or you could be called back any time. It’s definitely not illegal - your job can do this!

[Parker231]

This is the legal position - from 1 July 2020, employers can bring furloughed employees back to work for any amount of time and any shift pattern, whilst still being able to claim the furlough grant for the hours not worked.

It is an employers not employees decision when to bring employees back to work.

[monkeyonthetable]

YANBU. The virus should not be used as an excuse to reduce workers' rights. Eroding the opportunity to plan your week and your family life is a really nasty and unnecessary bit of powerplay. They can do flexible furlough and still tell you exactly what shifts are needed in advance if they choose to.

[Parker231]

The furlough scheme (temporarily) improved workers rights. When would you previously been paid to stay at home and still remain an employee. The purpose of the flexible element is to start to get employees back to work without loading the employer with all the costs.

[Littlegoth]

@FlameFartingDragon the notice period to end furlough isn’t 2 days (this might be something your organisation does). There is no minimum notice period as you are still an employee - your work could call you in the morning to say come in now. Wouldn’t be very good of them if they did, but they certainly can do.

@Bebbanburger your employer can’t just change your working days like this without making a change to Contractual terms and conditions. You return from furlough on the same terms and conditions as before. If you can’t meet these changes this is potentially a redundancy situation if you’ve been there longer than 2 years - if it’s a problem you should speak to ACAS for advice x

[Smidge001]

You really need to look at it as going back to work your old full time hours, and arrange childcare as you used to.
The upside is that you might not need to work all those hours. Any hours you don't work, you'll still get paid 80% for. (any you do work, you'll get 100% for)

As previous posters have said, you should use the money you've saved since not having a childminder to top up the difference between your new take home pay (somewhere between 80-100% depending on how much work you actually do).

[Pieface123]

All these magical people who have childcare at the drop of a hat, good for you.
We dont have any family local so rely entirely on being able to.find a childminder. Which hasnt proved possible so far.

@monkeyonthetable
Thank you! I dont see how they can suddenly control my entire week when the previous arrangement was nothing like that. My job is around the clock to so I could be asked to work any time day or nights

[NatashaAlianovaRomanova]

You should go back on the same terms as before furlough so if that was set hours/days they should remain the same.

If you normally work 8-2 Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday but they only need you 10-2 Monday & Tuesday due to business not being back to full capacity then you'll be paid in full for those 8 hours at your employers expense & they will claim the remaining 10 hours at 80% (then 70% then 60% once the tapering starts) through the furlough scheme.

There's no need to think that they'll suddenly start forcing you to work 6 until midnight Wednesday, Thursday & Friday if you've previously had set hours/days.

However PP's are right & you can be asked to return to work your normal hours at full capacity at any time & while you can request to remain furloughed due to childcare it is at your employers discretion whether or not they agree.

[cologne4711]

*We dont have any family local so rely entirely on being able to.find a childminder. Which hasnt proved possible so far

But isn't that the problem here, not the "zero hours/flexible furlough" issue? If they said to you, we need you back on (your) full time hours in the next month, you wouldn't be able to because you can't find childcare? THAT's the issue you have to solve - finding childcare at all.

[FizzFan]

You’ve agreed a variation of your employment contract by agreeing to be furloughed, at least on a temporary basis.

[FizzFan]

Plus they are asking you now to agree to it. You don’t have to but then of course you might get made redundant. And of course if you agree they can do it - because you’ve agreed.

I do have sympathy but equally I am not exactly sure what people expect off employers who themselves are just trying to survive and start earning money. It’s not exactly an ideal scenario for them either.

[user1487194234]

If someone in those circumstances can't go back it is not a redundancy situation
They would ultimately be dismissed
It all sounds harsh but employers have a responsibility to all staff (and themselves) to keep the company afloat

[FizzFan]

It actually might well be a redundancy situation given that’s what furloughing was designed to prevent in the first place. With the offer of the new working pattern as an alternative.

Agree it or don’t but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for employees to have to come and go a bit.

Sorry if I’ve missed it but do you have a partner? If so why can’t he do anything about childcare?