To think that my works idea of flexible furlough is bs?

[Pieface123]

Now I'm not too sure what other work places are doing with bringing people back to work, but heres how it's looking from my end.
Work in a hotel, have been furloughed since March.
Recieved an email today asking us to agree to flexible furlough. Straight after I had a conversation with the boss about how I would need time to organise childcare, he replied saying they weren't looking at bringing anyone back just yet.

"Following the UK Government’s recent announcement in relation to employees and the introduction of flexible furlough, we are writing further to your original agreement to be placed on furlough from 1st July 2020.

The new extension of furlough is called a Flexible Furlough Arrangement and will take effect from 1st July 2020. This new arrangement requires you to work any number but not more of your usual working hours per week on any day of the week needed, with the remaining number of hours continuing as furlough leave. The date on which this flexible furlough will come to an end will be dependent on a number of external factors, however, will not continue past 31st October 2020.
"

Forgive me if I am wrong, but how on earth can I arrange childcare when they dont complete the rotas for the week Friday-Thursday until thursday evenings? This is essentially turning my job into a zero hour contract style of working no?
Previously I had 3 set shifts each week and was asked about others due to needing childcare.

AIBU to think they cant do this? This isn't the rota i agreed to when I signed the contract- verbal agreement but it has never been deviated from.
Or YABU everyone has had a shit time and it is what it is

[Hercwasonaroll]

Have you actually asked your employer about fixed shifts? Otherwise the rest of the debate is ridiculous.

Ask, find out what they actually expect and take it from there.

[Parker231]

Unless you are a single parent, this isn’t solely a women’s problem. The father might have to make a flexible working request, work from home or take holidays to cover childcare.

[ssd]

@Pieface123, I feel for you. I was in the same situation for years when mine were young and without either set shifts or a very flexible workplace I couldn't have worked at all. I had no family help or magic wand either. What's happening now is essentially a nightmare for working mums without help. I think you have to directly ask your work what happens if you can't do the shifts asked due to lack of childcare. Just be direct and ask them. You need this explained. Youught even find they have a few workers in this situation who can swap shifts with each other when needed?
I think your backs against the wall here and it's a bloody shame. This virus has made women go back 50 years, people who have childcare or health issues are being forced into a corner and people like me on furlough with a dh still working have turned into 1950s housewives who cook dinner every night and hang out the washing every day. And what's worse I'm actually loving it.

[BumpkinSpiceBatty]

@Pieface123 did you end the contract with the cm?
Did they offer a retainer or reduced sessions at all?

[FlameFartingDragon]

You need to a) have a discussion with your employer and b) organise childcare. You are still being paid at 80% for your hours. What have you done with the money saved from childcare over the last few weeks?

[CheshireChav]

You need to speak to your employer and tell them you can work Mon, Tue, Weds (Sat and Sun if appropriate) ... you're being flexible and co-operative then.

Then book childminder 1 and even if you're not in work, use her services.

[Blobby10]

We are introducing the same system into our factory - if we only have work for someone for 2 days instead of their normal 5 then the furlough scheme will make up the difference in pay. It doesn't mean they will be expected to work Mon/Tue one week and Wed/Thurs the next although it would be nice if they could accommodate our customer's needs especially if they are still being paid for not working.

Why don't you contact your employer and ask for confirmation?

[okiedokieme]

You will be paid, it's not the same as zero hours. I'm well past childcare but I'm paid 3 days a week but due to lockdown it's often 1 - 1.5 of work but scattered throughout so if I needed care I would book the 3 days in paid for.

[Todaythiscouldbe]

And again....have you actually asked your employer if they are expecting you to be 'on call' for anything other than your usual shifts?

[Pieface123]

The point isn't that theres no childcare, the point is I'm struggling to find a childminder willing to be flexible. So for example childminder 1 will work Monday tuesday and Wednesday but my job could ask me to wprk Thursday friday .
Which means I would have then wasted hundreds of pounds paying childminder 1 in advance when they are not needed or viable at all.

My issue is I cant see how I can get a childminder to be essentially "on call" for the next month when they might not be needed for a single hour.

[StickersandStripes]

The reality of the situation is that single parents or those with partners who won't help to share childcare requirements, are going to be screwed by this, so mainly women. But it's what's going to happen, employers will need flexible people who can change shifts at short notice until they know how trade is going to pan out. Sadly those remaining on furlough due to childcare issues are likely to be those being made redundant, because redundancies are coming.

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

Op if there's no childcare whatsoever where you are you are fucked for any job really aren't you?

The government aren't going to leave you on furlough indefinitely and pay you to not work.

[FizzFan]

It actually might well be a redundancy situation given that’s what furloughing was designed to prevent in the first place. With the offer of the new working pattern as an alternative.

Agree it or don’t but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for employees to have to come and go a bit.

Sorry if I’ve missed it but do you have a partner? If so why can’t he do anything about childcare?

[user1487194234]

If someone in those circumstances can't go back it is not a redundancy situation
They would ultimately be dismissed
It all sounds harsh but employers have a responsibility to all staff (and themselves) to keep the company afloat

[FizzFan]

Plus they are asking you now to agree to it. You don’t have to but then of course you might get made redundant. And of course if you agree they can do it - because you’ve agreed.

I do have sympathy but equally I am not exactly sure what people expect off employers who themselves are just trying to survive and start earning money. It’s not exactly an ideal scenario for them either.

[FizzFan]

You’ve agreed a variation of your employment contract by agreeing to be furloughed, at least on a temporary basis.

[cologne4711]

*We dont have any family local so rely entirely on being able to.find a childminder. Which hasnt proved possible so far

But isn't that the problem here, not the "zero hours/flexible furlough" issue? If they said to you, we need you back on (your) full time hours in the next month, you wouldn't be able to because you can't find childcare? THAT's the issue you have to solve - finding childcare at all.

[NatashaAlianovaRomanova]

You should go back on the same terms as before furlough so if that was set hours/days they should remain the same.

If you normally work 8-2 Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday but they only need you 10-2 Monday & Tuesday due to business not being back to full capacity then you'll be paid in full for those 8 hours at your employers expense & they will claim the remaining 10 hours at 80% (then 70% then 60% once the tapering starts) through the furlough scheme.

There's no need to think that they'll suddenly start forcing you to work 6 until midnight Wednesday, Thursday & Friday if you've previously had set hours/days.

However PP's are right & you can be asked to return to work your normal hours at full capacity at any time & while you can request to remain furloughed due to childcare it is at your employers discretion whether or not they agree.

[Pieface123]

All these magical people who have childcare at the drop of a hat, good for you.
We dont have any family local so rely entirely on being able to.find a childminder. Which hasnt proved possible so far.

@monkeyonthetable
Thank you! I dont see how they can suddenly control my entire week when the previous arrangement was nothing like that. My job is around the clock to so I could be asked to work any time day or nights

[Smidge001]

You really need to look at it as going back to work your old full time hours, and arrange childcare as you used to.
The upside is that you might not need to work all those hours. Any hours you don't work, you'll still get paid 80% for. (any you do work, you'll get 100% for)

As previous posters have said, you should use the money you've saved since not having a childminder to top up the difference between your new take home pay (somewhere between 80-100% depending on how much work you actually do).

[Littlegoth]

@FlameFartingDragon the notice period to end furlough isn’t 2 days (this might be something your organisation does). There is no minimum notice period as you are still an employee - your work could call you in the morning to say come in now. Wouldn’t be very good of them if they did, but they certainly can do.

@Bebbanburger your employer can’t just change your working days like this without making a change to Contractual terms and conditions. You return from furlough on the same terms and conditions as before. If you can’t meet these changes this is potentially a redundancy situation if you’ve been there longer than 2 years - if it’s a problem you should speak to ACAS for advice x

[Parker231]

The furlough scheme (temporarily) improved workers rights. When would you previously been paid to stay at home and still remain an employee. The purpose of the flexible element is to start to get employees back to work without loading the employer with all the costs.

[monkeyonthetable]

YANBU. The virus should not be used as an excuse to reduce workers' rights. Eroding the opportunity to plan your week and your family life is a really nasty and unnecessary bit of powerplay. They can do flexible furlough and still tell you exactly what shifts are needed in advance if they choose to.

[Parker231]

This is the legal position - from 1 July 2020, employers can bring furloughed employees back to work for any amount of time and any shift pattern, whilst still being able to claim the furlough grant for the hours not worked.

It is an employers not employees decision when to bring employees back to work.

[KaptenKrusty]

That’s how flexible furlough works tho haven’t you read the government guidelines? I’m staying off til end of August at my job / but some staff are back - we are only open 3 days not 5 - last month we paid people full pay who were working even though they only were back 3 days - this month we only have to pay them for the 3 days and get tI claim their 2 days back from the government. But the rest of us who are still not working are only getting 60% money from gov and job expected to top up by 20%

This has been widely known about for ages that this change was coming!

You may not even go back for a few months or you could be called back any time. It’s definitely not illegal - your job can do this!