to think you’d be mad to marry and have children with a partner whose parent(s) you hate?

[Merryoldgoat]

I suspect this isn’t the first thread about this but I’m truly perplexed.

I’ve read a few posts recently where the OP describes an untenable situation with one or more in-laws. It then transpires that this situation has been the case since the start of the relationship, there are now children in the mix and the partner refuses to address it.

I don’t get it - how does the relationship get that far? I’m not talking about minor irritations which are standard in any relationship - I’m taking about the bile and vitriol and trying to break you up.

Wouldn’t you just think ‘fuck this?’ I know I would.

I absolutely agree... but I am so glad my DH doesn’t luckily I’ve always got on like a house on fire with his parents, and he seems to have endless patience for my own mothers... difficult personality. She can be so bloody nasty to him for absolutely no reason and he just steps back and then tries again another time. She can be very overbearing and has lots of opinions about him which simply aren’t true (he’s a big drinker for example when he rarely goes out!) and even went as far as to telling me, repeatedly but most hurtfully two weeks before our wedding, I shouldn’t marry him. She couldn’t actually articulate any reasons why, just that he isn’t good enough.
Thank goodness he loves me anyway because he’s wonderful, in every single way.

As a kid I was caught up in animosity between dad and his in laws, my GPs. Also GPs and mum. It was shit. He went NC with them but she very much didn't so it was still messy. Her relationship with them was toxic. As an adult I feel angry about how they managed things and what the kids in the family were exposed to.
I've had a boyfriend where we had been together a while before I went to meet/ stay with his parents. Nothing wrong with them at all and they tried to make me welcome but I knew they weren't for me and I wasn't up for marrying into that family. I'd never have fitted in, or wanted to. It really altered how I felt about him.

I think in my case I believed if I carried on being nice and kind and cheerful, and not holding a grudge, I would win her round. It took reading toxic in-laws to realise that was a well-known tried-and-failed strategy. There has been lots of friction over the years, and she went borderline bonkers when DD1 was born (much saner about DD2, she’d wanted a boy). It’s a shame because witnessing her mind games is part of why SIL decided against having children in the UK (they hope to move abroad). We also now live abroad and it’s perplexing watching from afar as she blows hot and ice cold like she always did - when she’s not seen me in months so I cannot possibly have upset her!

It's having babies.

My PILs were lovely until I had a child with DH. I have DC from a previous relationship and all was well. It was quite a few years into the marriage before we had our own DC, and all was well.

Once the baby was here, they just collectively lost their shit for a while. They couldn't get their heads around us doing things differently from how they did it and took everything as an unspoken criticism. I think they blamed me, because it was easier than accepting that their son was his own person who thought differently from them.

There was also an issue with SIL, who is consumed with jealousy and resentment of me because I had her preferred sex, and because she can't cow me.

However on saying that, things are calming down now DC are getting older and they're becoming used to our boundaries. They aren't horrible people at all, I'm very fond of them, but very enmeshed and SIL stirs the pot.

It helped that it wasn't my first rodeo either, I had the pleasant breezy "this is how it's going to be and I'm going to ignore any nonsense" down pat, which meant that the incidents that could have blown up into a family row didn't, because I just didn't acknowledge or reward bad behaviour with attention.

I'm also no pushover and I don't give a shit what people think of me

If I'd been a first time mum though, it would have been dreadful and we probably wouldn't have been speaking now.

As it was, the switch in their behaviour was stunning. It really was overnight. And these aren't bad people. I posted about it on here at the time and many people shared their own stories,which were ten times worse.

Honestly it's when the babies arrive. I don't know why, but it makes certain PILS lose their shit

Agree with pp. When our first DC arrived, they changed. Pils became controlling and judgemental. I am NC now.

They seemed so normal and welcoming at the start!!

I hate my in laws, but luckily they live in a different country and we are very low contact, almost no contact.

I think it is typicial of controlling and difficult people to only act out when they are threatened. These type of people will often see a gf for example as just a playmate for their son so they are still the most important person/people. Once marriage and babies happens this can change and the controlling person is now threatened and will act accordingly. It is not always obvious when you are a gf that this will happen and what you thought was respecting the couple was actually ignoring you as you are not important. Hindsight then causes you to look at other behaviours and you can see thay it was like that all along.

@Pedalboat I suppose I feel its important to know what you're getting into because I'm from another country and have no family here. DH's family is therefore our only relatives and they are mostly awful. Thus doesn't affect me day-to-day because DH has clear boundaries but it makes me very sad sometimed. DS doesn't see any extended family at all. He has a cousin the same age that's he met 5 times in his life. He's seen his overseas cousins more often than one who lives in the same city!
I'm just saying your partner's family should bear some weight on your decision to marry someone.

I'm a mother in law. We lived a long way from our parents but maintained good relationships with them, and I believe we get on ok with our children's partners. Our grandchildren are THEIR children, and its up to them what choices they make for their children and how they bring them up. We don't interfere, we help out with babysitting on occasion, if we're asked, and I did look after the youngest quite a bit after I retired.

The nearest one is an hour away, so we aren't in each others' pockets like some families. A friends daughters both live in the same street as she and her husband, and their lives are so intermingled. Wouldn't have worked for us.

I think yanbu.

It is one thing not to be best of mates with your in-laws, but to be married to someone whose parents you actively despise OR who actively despise YOU, must be absolutely awful. I would see it as a huge red flag if I was in a newish relationship and my DP's family hated me or I hated them.

Only if the DP is still in frequent contact with them mind you. It is different if the in-laws are not a part of either half of the couple's lives.

I cannot imagine being married to someone who truly hated my family. On the other hand, I cannot imagine being in contact with family if they were really, really bad to my DP, or to anyone really. If my family had done something had enough to truly warrant hatred, I'd want to cut them out too. So it works both ways.

I suppose relationships can deteriorate though and what started out manageable no longer is, or like an abusive partner, the in-laws could start out nice and turn nasty once the relationship has gone further; like you're married or have dcs.

*bad enough

My PILs changed the way they treated me after we married. It was literally like a switch flipped and I was now their subordinate to be told what to do and how to behave. I don't see them anymore.

I think @recycledbottle has nailed it.

While you are completely right in theory, OP, often our parents and in-laws don't reveal just how toxic they are until after you marry and/or have children.

With hindsight, my in-laws were always dysfunctional, and I certainly never felt 100% comfortable with their family dynamics, but they also had lots of good points and were still loving and respectful... until they weren't

YANBU. People get blinded by love and / or "think it won't be that bad". My first husband had a nightmare mother and an annoying family. They are / were rude, thoughtless, demanding and annoying. Numerous examples of this l existences e.g. MIL saying my occupation was low class and l would probably fail at it, BIL saying l couldn’t change jobs, demanding dinner at 5pm and wanting to specify what it was, like it was a restaurant. Rocking up to stay for 2-3 weeks then wanting to be waited on hand and foot, being driven around the UK etc etc.

Plus he ALWAYS took their side with everything. There were a couple of reasons l divorced him, his family were one of them. This time l haven't made the same mistake!!

@Yeahnahmum

You marry the man. Not the parents in law. However... you should make 100% sure that your husband is the kinda guy that would choose you/your side over his parents. Because if not. And he has always displayed tendencies of 'yes but they mean well' blah blah then you are just asking for trouble marrying into that.

Yes. Mine had awful parents- I mean awful. From the first time I met them -it was clear that she was a total bitch and so was he. But you love me -the ex said and I'll stand up for you. He did sometimes -but looking back -the signs were there -occasionally he'd turn on me and say 'well you did this -(walk away or whatever) and that didn't help.' He was not 100% supportive. As soon as I was pregnant -that was that the tide started to turn and when at my most vulnerable he was the most 'on side' with them. I still wish for the day they are both not on the planet as although they don't interfere in my life -they do in the children's. Court order speciifically mentions that they can NOT contact me, or discuss me or be abusive about me,or be left with the children whilst the ex has them. But I'm sure they do. I have rarely met anyone man or woman who I would call a bitch -but they both are. Looking back -that first time I meet them and they were vile to me and he looked like a rabbit in the head light's I should have dumped him and run for the hills. The x4 daily contact for years, made me ill -seriously ill. I don't hate them but I sure as hell wish they would pop their clogs soon.

i married dh not his family, due to various reasons we never see them anyway, apart from his mum and adult dcs. too much drama with several others, not worth it.

I knew my in-laws were quite different people to me, they’re even quite different to DH, but it wasn’t until we had children that their true colours came out. They went from happily seeing us 2-3 times a year to expecting monthly visits (5h drive away) and generally being a negative drain on our life. I have often thought that if DH and I split up it would be wonderful to never have to see them again, but that’s at the cost of losing time with my DC. At points they have made me consider ending my relationship with DH, they’re that unpleasant, but it took 9 years to show their true colours and expectations.

I’m very sorry to hear some of the stories on here. I think that my fairly chaotic upbringing has led me to wanting no ‘nonsense’ in my life. My family are a bit overbearing but I keep them at a distance.

My husband’s are lovely and we see them several times a week.

I just don’t think any relationship (for me) could get anywhere if his family were too involved or unpleasant. I know that changes can happen later or overtime but I suspect that that the relationship was never ‘great’ in that case.

I actually liked MIL, we had a great relationship until ds was born.
She became overbearing and pushy once he was here.
Turning up announced at the hospital or our home when previsously we always went to her.
Turning up when she knew my parents I had been invited to see him at the hospital and it was super awkward as only 2 visitors were allowed.
Coming into my bedroom when I went for privacy to breastfeed and saw my boobs.
Opening my flowers sent by work.
Moaning that I beat her to buying the first advent calender.
That sort of shite. Ds is 2 now and I still can't stand her

Yeah..I'm with you on your main point..but I absolutely love my partner even though his parents are really awful to me/and him. We're engaged at the minute and the only thing putting me off the marriage is his mum and dad (they're both very into minipulative behaviour, and speak as though that's the law and we are children ) Sometimes I think 'I love him and we can get through anything'..others I think 'holy s*#t I can't do this forever' after 4 years together my problems only started when I got pregnant, my partner became ignored and i was literally called the incubator. I was hoping when baby was born they'd change back and get over the whole 'new baby so I'm clearly a parent again' hype..but I'll be honest your post has shaken my confidence that we can got a feeling I'll have my own thread about this soon with the way things are going..But your right with your point maybe some problems can't be ignored in hope of a brighter tomorrow.

I will also add that MIL is weird with her own daughter too.
SIL had fertility treatment (conceived on 3rd attempt) but I had the first grandchild. If we mentioned the pregnancy MIL would get all upset that sil wasn't yet pregnant or the embryo didn't take which is understandable so we didn't mention it as much as we didn't want to cause a scene.
Later found out that she was causing a scene with sil because she wasn't involved in my pregnancy

It is definitely something to be considered especially if they're close.
The other thing is even if your OH seems very different from the family it's on there.
My eldest Dsis has a nasty unhappy spiteful MIL her DH is morphing into his DM.

It doesn't always spell the end of the road, but there is almost always a painful road to equilibrium. Sometimes that comes at the expense of letting go of hope that things could be different, which is usually a painful process. You can only work with what you have, not with the way you wish things could be. And sometimes, unfortunately, these relationships are not salvageable.

This situation was only resolved for me when I told DH: you are going to tell them the next time they go too far, or their behaviour is intolerable, or they start with the passive aggression or are rude to me. You will ask them in no uncertain terms to stop. If you don't, I will, and they won't like what I have to say because I won't in any way be subtle or gentle about it.

He said 'fine' to humour me, not believing I would actually follow through on what I'd said. I did. By that stage it had become a matter of dignity for me, and that isn't something I'm prepared to sacrifice for the sake of 'keeping the peace' (that wasn't really peace from my perspective at all).

I've since taken a 'not my circus, not my monkeys' approach. They don't have contact details for me and any contact between DC, DH and the in-laws is organised through MiL and DH. I don't get involved. If I'm here when she visits, I'm here; if I have something else to do, I do that. I don't visit there. DH has since also had his own epiphany about another member of his family - this had nothing to do with me as I've long been NC with them. Now, so is he. It's something I'd always seen but I take no pleasure in the fact that it's come to this between them, nor would I ever think of saying 'I told you so'.

I'm sorry for others who are navigating this minefield. Susan Forward's Toxic In-Laws has a title which belies its content: it tackles the problem of setting healthy boundaries and protecting your marriage in a very positive tone. To others who are in this situation I can recommend it highly. It's a game-changer.

YY to the book recommendation.
DH found Toxic Parents very helpful too.

My MIL was a bit odd while I was dating her son, but seemed OK. I made a huge effort to be lovely and accepting and get to know her.

It was only after we got married that she really made it clear she wasn't happy that I was around and her behaviour towards me got worse and worse. We started by broadly putting up with it but only seeing them a couple of times a year (long distance) and spending a lot of time out when we were at theirs. They never wanted to stay at ours anyway- all invites were refused and they'd generally also avoid invited for food at ours- it was like she couldn't bear to set foot in our lovely home that we shared.

My DH was utterly conditioned to her behaviour so it took a while before he realised quite how bizarre it was, although he refused (and still does!!) to do anything to address it.

Then our first DC came along, and suddenly the in-laws wanted to be up visiting all the time, but always with a catch... I.e. "we'll be staying in a caravan an hour from you. Bring the baby to see us", never just a nice normal visit. Tensions rose when we refused and asked them to come to our place. MIL repeatedly tried to (subtly) erase me from my own family- trying to make sure they got christening pics with her children in them but not me, and many other examples of similar. In the end we've pushed back and dropped down to minimal contact to preserve our sanity, which makes me sad as I wanted my children to have sensible relationships with both sides of their family.

Over the years it's caused so many arguments with my DH, about both her treatment of me and about whether we'll concede to demands or push back, and if I'd known where it would take us, I honestly don't know whether I would have married him. But as MIL has felt more and more displaced as DH's own family unit has become established, she's gone from being a bit bonkers in a harmless enough way to a raging jealous nut job.

Long story short, it's not always clear how it's going to turn out. And in my case, it's got progressively worse as we've reached more milestones (marriage, kids), so I probably would never have been able to know until it was too late.