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AIBU?

To not own a face mask

91 replies

BeeB29 · 10/06/2020 18:22

Aibu to not feel the need to buy one for my situation?

Mil was talking about face masks over the phone and I said I didn’t have any and I haven’t been actively looking for them.

I complete understand they have their purpose.

We are low risk. We live rurally in a quiet area so no crowds and avoid any crowds at the best of times, I try and get my shopping delivered, I social distance from people when I do have to go shopping, I drive so don’t have to use public transport (no public transport where I live anyway). I’m off work, home with dc. Other half has been working throughout but his job is low risk.

I just don’t feel there’s a need for me to buy them when others might be in greater need?

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

163 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
30%
You are NOT being unreasonable
70%
recycledteenager24 · 11/06/2020 21:05

celan Hmm goady or selfish ? not sure which one applies.

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BeeB29 · 12/06/2020 12:08

Thanks all. Interesting how people have mentioned children using them. I think that’s is totally fine if If your child can manage it. But my DS has autism. I feel that wearing a face mask won’t be great for him and he would probably constantly touch and fiddle with it therefore defeats the purpose as he’ll be touching his face.

I may look out for and buy some coverings just to have just in case. I would make some but I can’t sew for the life of me!

Right now I don’t feel I have a great need. Don’t use public transport, you could walk for miles from my front door and not really see anyone. I got a shop delivered from Tesco this morning. I may buy one for the odd times I go to the shops though.

OP posts:
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Freddiefox · 12/06/2020 16:18

@Celan

I have been out all along, regardless of the stupid rules, and have been seeing people. The whole lockdown things is ridiculous.

Guess what? I don't know a single person who has had Covid.

So no, I won't be wearing a mask.

Give it a week and I think you won’t have a choice.. once they remove the 2meters I think it will become mandatory
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cologne4711 · 12/06/2020 16:27

Certainly people in masks don't seem to social distance as well as they should be

I keep seeing this. Most supermarkets do not have aisles that are 2m wide, and so I pass at less than 2m. I would whether or not I have a mask on, but hope that the fact that I wear a face covering will make the over-anxious who think the virus can leap from me to them will feel a little less anxious. You cannot pass on the virus by passing briefly within 2m. Originally the 2m rule was about conversations for 15 minutes, not passing behind someone in a shop.

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cologne4711 · 12/06/2020 16:29

Because the droplets from a cough or sneeze or even a sudden exhalation travel further than 2 metres. 2 metres is cutting down on the risk, not getting rid of it

If you feel a cough or sneeze coming on, you should cough/sneeze into your elbow, not into the faces of the shoppers around you!

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AKissAndASmile · 12/06/2020 16:32

I've not RTFT but if you need to be seen by your GP you will need to wear a mask, so you should get one just in case. Unless you can't afford it, of course. You can then use a scarf or something, which will be better than nothing, although not ideal.

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Thurmanmurman · 12/06/2020 16:45

I'm back at work and my job requires me to enter people's houses so I wear one for that. I find them so restrictive and feel suffocated in them even for 30 mins or so. I wouldn't wear one anywhere else unless it was mandatory and I honestly don't know how NHS staff cope with wearing PPI all day.

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Srictlybakeoff · 12/06/2020 23:10

The Scottish view
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Celan · 12/06/2020 23:14

@Freddiefox Masks becoming mandatory would be yet another nail in the coffin of any kind of civil liberties. Imagine the furore if women were told that it was mandatory to wear skirts, or men were told it was mandatory to wear ties.

Of course, some would argue that masks help to stop the spread. I remain unconvinced, though.

If it absolutely came to it, I would wail and gnash my teeth and wear a light scarf which could be moved towards my face as a rudimentary "face covering" if someone took me to task about it in any kind of official capacity.

I personally think masks are disgusting, filthy objects when used by ordinary members of the public (not people whose jobs demand PPE, obviously).

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NameChange30 · 12/06/2020 23:19

YANBU.
DH asked me to wear one when I went to the hospital for my 20 week scan, but when I tried to put it on, I felt as if I couldn't breathe and felt very panicky, so I took it off.
I am now further along in pregnancy and feel breathless all the time so I have no intention of wearing one.
If I wasn't pregnant I still wouldn't want to wear one. The infection levels in the community are extremely low (1 in 1700 i think?!) so I think it's unnecessary. I would only wear one if I was forced to and even then I would do it grudgingly.

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KeepYourDistance2m · 12/06/2020 23:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Guylan · 14/06/2020 13:32

If I was in shops or any indoor confined space (due to illness I am bedbound so can’t be) I would wear one to protect others. The more people wear one the more it will reduce spread. This American doctor wrote a long piece on why he now believes wearing masks will help reduce spread if enough people do it.

“There has been plenty of debate about wearing masks to help prevent the spread of coronavirus. And with good reason. At the start of this pandemic, we didn’t really have much scientific evidence. And what little evidence we had involved other diseases, like the flu, which can’t be applied to the COVID-19 virus, SARS-CoV-2 or Coronavirus.

When this all got really bad, I was in Peru, desperately trying to get home the day before that country shut its airports. I was traveling with a handful of other doctors, and none of us wore masks. We were sure that anything other than an N95 was pointless.

But I was wrong. We were wrong. The WHO is STILL thinking wrong. Because we were thinking backward. We were thinking of how to avoid getting it. But we should have been thinking about how to avoid spreading it.

Because yes, if an infected person coughs in your face, you are likely to get infected unless wearing an N95 and face shield. But a simple cloth face mask turns out to be remarkably effective at keeping someone’s germs to themselves, especially during the presymptomatic phase of the disease.

I’m not here to force you to wear a mask, or to call you stupid for not wearing one. I’m just here to show you the evidence that changed my mind. I hope you come to the same conclusion as I did: We don’t have to choose between killing the economy or killing people. With simple face masks in addition to hand washing we can eliminate the virus, reopen the economy, and save thousands of lives all at the same time.

THE TRUTH ABOUT MASKS

The truth is that coronavirus is largely spread by respiratory droplets. And homemade masks can block the majority of those droplets. “Healthy” people infect just as many people as sick ones. And places like Austria saw a 90% drop in COVID infection within two weeks of mandating masks. So all of us should be wearing masks. But please don’t take my word for it. I’ve been wrong before, I’ll be wrong again. Instead, look at all the evidence below.

CLOTH MASKS BLOCK THE PRIMARY MODE OF CORONAVIRUS TRANSMISSION

First of all, we needed to realize exactly how coronavirus spreads. This is primarily through respiratory droplets which are about 5-10 microns in diameter. Studies tracing the outbreaks in China show that the transmission mode was primarily through these larger droplets. www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-transmission-of-virus-causing-covid-19-implications-for-ipc-precaution-recommendations

Still we can’t rule out transmission through aerosols (droplets smaller than 5 microns). But, fortunately cloth masks can block both droplets and aerosols.

A study from Wake Forest (in publication) shows that home-made masks can block almost all droplets, including aerosols. The better the material, the more droplets they block. The best masks are made with two layers of batik quilting fabric, or else cotton backed with flannel. These block even more droplets than a standard surgical mask, like the one I’m wearing in the photo on this post. newsroom.wakehealth.edu/News-Releases/2020/04/Testing-Shows-Type-of-Cloth-Used-in-Homemade-Masks-Makes-a-Difference

Other studies have shown that unfitted surgical masks can drastically reduce the spread of the seasonal human coronavirus, a much less virulent cousin that causes mild colds. This study shows that even if aerosols and droplets emerge through the mask, they seem to have been filtered of all coronavirus RNA. www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2#Tab1

The following video demonstrates the effect on a scale we can see. These droplets are bigger than the ones we’ve talked about so far. I use it only to help visualize what the other studies show on the microscopic scale.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=UNHgQq0BGLI&time_continue=19&feature=emb_title

And its important to remember, that you have to inhale a certain number of live viruses to actually catch the disease. That exact number isn’t known for COVID. But 1000 is the best guess of virologists. You may think “who cares if the mask blocks most virus? All it takes is one and I get sick.” But that’s not correct.
www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-questions-about-covid-19-and-viral-load/

Blocking most of the virus droplets means the people around you are unlikely to inhale enough to get infected. This is also why being outside is safer than in an enclosed area; the wind spreads your droplets around and people nearby are less likely to get hit with enough live virus to cause an infection www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/4/24/21233226/coronavirus-runners-cyclists-airborne-infectious-dose

WHY HEALTHY PEOPLE SHOULD WEAR A MASK

This is a frequent topic of debate. Why should healthy people be made to wear a mask? Well there is one major problem: up to half of those infected with COVID don’t know it, but can still spread it. So you can’t really know whether you are truly healthy. It’s an assumption of health, and it’s often incorrect.

In fact numerous studies have found that roughly half of COVID infections are transmitted between people before they know they are sick. (These are in process but so is the pandemic.) www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0869-5

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.05.20031815v1

This asymptomatic transmission is what accounts for people developing infections after lockdowns and quarantines are instituted.
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20053157v1

MASKS WILL STOP THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS

Using all of these numbers, new models predict a vast drop in COVID cases with the universal use of face masks. (I know models have been wildly inaccurate, but stick with me just a bit more.) Some actually show it to be far more effective than the economic shutdown we have been going through. In fact they give us hope that with only 70% of the population wearing masks we could extinguish this disease before a vaccine is ever developed. That’s something we can all be happy about.
arxiv.org/abs/2003.07353

news.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-09/AI-modeling-shows-mask-effective-in-COVID-19-prevention-QmaVnIJYaI/index.html

www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2020/05/15/2020.05.09.20096644.full.pdf

BUT DOES IT WORK IN REAL LIFE?

Like I said, the last few months have been full of models and predictions whipsawing from one extreme to another. And there are valid concerns that average people don’t know how to use masks or that masks might give us too much confidence, leading to unsafe behavior. But we can look to real-life examples to provide evidence of the effectiveness of masks. And that shows us that masks can be incredibly effective.

Let’s talk about Japan (we’ve had 10 times their number of cases despite only being 2.5 times as large.) They’ve had no lockdown and closed no stores, but everyone wears masks. And they’ve had days with no new cases reported. But there could certainly be other reasons for their low case levels, such as total testing and differences in reporting. Besides, you could argue that their culture is used to wearing masks and would use them more effectively.

So instead let's look at Austria, a country with no previous culture of face mask wearing. They made masks mandatory in public starting April 6. Two weeks later, infections had dropped by 90%.www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-people-wear-face-masks.htm

Let’s look at the Czech Republic. They required facemasks in mid March. Within three days, the people produced enough masks at home for every man, woman and child, all 10 million. Coupled with their social distancing, this has kept the total cases in Czech Republic to one of the lowest in Europe, with only 50 deaths. www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/04/04/czech-government-implemented-face-mask-requirement-help-combat-coronavirus-column/2940393001/

Similarly, Slovakia, the second country in Europe to implement facemask use has had some of the lowest cases and deaths in Europe. www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/opinion/facemasks-against-covid-19-why-slovakia-became-the-trailblazer/

And finally let's look to America. What happens when a hot zone institutes face mask policies? Well Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston instituted universal masking of patients and staff, the rate of staff COVID infections dropped by 50%. www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/23/brigham-and-womens-masks-infections

Other than that, it’s hard to say. Our testing rates are low, case reporting and compiling vary significantly from state to state, and most states only require employees to wear masks when in contact with customers. We really don’t have reliable data from which to draw conclusions.

WHY NOT JUST MASK THOSE AT HIGH RISK?

While this seems like a reasonable and simpler solution at first, it is logistically impossible. Most elderly people here live in multigenerational homes and can't afford to live on their own. Even if they stay home, their families will bring COVID home to roost.

And if we were to round them all up and put them in some sort of protective housing, well that too would be an enormous violation of civil rights. Plus putting many high risk individuals together just means that when a care worker at this facility eventually infects somebody, we will have just set up a slaughterhouse and made the disease that much more likely to kill them all.

Plus you have the final piece in this puzzle. Unfortunately it's another one that puts egg on the face of the medical community and our assumptions. It turns out that wearing an N95 mask is maybe not the best way to keep yourself from getting sick. Having the infected person wear the mask is. In a study published (and largely overlooked) in 2013 in the Journal of Aerosol Medicine and Pulmonary Drug Delivery, it was shown that even a simple surgical mask on a source of aerosol was better at preventing exposure than an N95 on the “healthy subject.” www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/jamp.2012.0998

This is why the motto in Czech Republic is “My mask protects you, your mask protects me.”

WHY WE SHOULD ALL BE WEARING MASKS

Putting it all together, we should definitely all be wearing masks as much as possible in public. Especially situations with high risk of transmission (office buildings, restaurants, parties, bars, nightclubs, public transit, gyms, and religious services). For more info on that, please read this incredibly informative article by Dr. Erin Bromage at Dartmouth www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

I’ll be the first to admit that the medical profession is playing catch up here. And the inconsistent, conflicting messages have been very confusing. Hell, I’m contradicting the WHO! But I think the evidence is solid. And so do others:

Face Masks Against COVID-19: An Evidence Based Review www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1

CAN’T WE JUST GET IT OVER WITH?

I know I sometimes think “I’d rather just catch this virus, get it over with and get back to normal life.” I’m sure many of you do too. Some think that risking infection is their duty to return the country to normal. But that’s letting the virus win.

Patriots make sacrifices, sure. But not senseless ones. And risking infection is an unnecessary sacrifice because wearing a mask, washing your hands, and keeping 6 feet away is the only sacrifice you have to make. (Well, that and getting your brain tickled by the COVID nasal swab if you have symptoms.)

I hope you come to the same conclusion I did. I hope we can all agree to make these accommodations. For so long, it has seemed like we would have to choose between our people and our economy. But with this new information, for the first time in a long time, I’m hopeful we can save both.”

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Satwatchinganotherswimlesson · 14/06/2020 13:52

Surely you need one for emergency’s for example an unexpected hospital or gp visit. Our GP practice have been clear that you will not be allowed in without one and they are unable to provide one. They are super simple to make. I have zero sewing skills and have been able to make some
Pretty awesome ones with the help of YouTube.

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Picklypickles · 14/06/2020 13:58

I've just got one each for all of us in my house, a lady in the village has been making and selling them for £2 each with proceeds going to our village hall restoration fund. We live rurally and don't get out much so probably wont need them much, but we have just had a message from the GP surgery saying we will need to wear masks if we visit the surgery so glad we've got some if we do need them.

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Guylan · 14/06/2020 14:35

As a postscript to my long post above, the American doctor wrote what I shared above ton 20 May. At that time WHO did not recommend healthy people wearing masks out and about. On 6 June WHO have said due to evolving evidence they now advise that governments should encourage the general public to wear masks where there is widespread transmission and physical distancing is difficult, such as on public transport, in shops or in other confined or crowded environments.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52945210

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DianaT1969 · 14/06/2020 14:47

If you ever go to your GP or A&E you may need one. Perhaps they'll have some to give away.

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