To be shocked that this was ever ok?! Blackface on Little Britain...

[BrexitBingoGenerator]

Hello. I've just been looking at the Daily Mail (sorry) and there is a thing about this. I was genuinely gobsmacked seeing the photo and it's completely offensive. However, at some time in the not-so-distant past, this was seen as mainstream comedy and I remember it being on primetime telly. So a critical mass of people must have thought this was ok? I never really watched little Britain and this sketch in particular made me want to heave, but I think at the time it was rather for its horrible portrayal of women generally. I don't remember outrage over it at the time. But maybe there was? I guess I'm just ashamed that comedy like this could have been screened in my adult lifetime.

[MellowBird85]

@Pumperthepumper your views on this will not change so there’s little point anyone trying to explain an opposing view but I will say this. True equality is where we can all take the piss out of each other equally. Sod punching up / punching down...do you really want to be a perpetual victim? There was a thread on here recently stating that there is a great British tradition that if someone is taking the piss out of you (in a good-hearted fashion), it signifies you’re a mate and I agree with that. There was no malice in Little Britain. But look, they’ve apologised and it’s been pulled so what more is there to say.

[Pumperthepumper]

David Walliams has apologised on Twitter and said how he and Matt Lucas regret playing characters of other races.

[Regretful123]

It’s also fattest

[Pumperthepumper]

Disappointed nobody followed through the logic of ‘what about White Chicks’.

[blueheaven97]

@Destroyedpeople

It wasn't really ok then in answer to the people who insist it was 'of its time'...it wasn't 30 years ago ya know.
I reckon the character of ' Sebastian Love' is about as close to the real reasons why this shyte was aired as we are going to get.

...but attitudes have changed a lot in the 15 years or so since Little Britain was a new TV show. I've been watching some of the 2006 series of Big Brother, which has been getting repeated on a streaming platform recently - the attitudes the housemates have, and the things they got away with saying in 2006, completely unchallenged, would never be considered acceptable now.

I still say Little Britain is very much of its time - people accepted it then, but it would never get commissioned or broadcast in that form in 2020. Attitudes change constantly and it can happen very quickly. I can think of a few things being made now that could easily end up being seen as offensive in years to come.

[Destroyedpeople]

It wasn't really ok then in answer to the people who insist it was 'of its time'...it wasn't 30 years ago ya know.
I reckon the character of ' Sebastian Love' is about as close to the real reasons why this shyte was aired as we are going to get.

[Pumperthepumper]

Re: impersonation in comedy, I wrote this on the other thread, if anyone is interested. The point being that there are loads of examples where racist stereotypes are used to punch up - and LB isn’t, and has never been, that.

The thing I find most frustrating about this conversation is how actually, there is a wealth of white-centric British comedy that plays racism for laughs. I’m not a massive Ricky Gervais fan but David Brent being the prime example - someone so keen to be seen as right-on and woke, yet tells jokes he struggles to finish in front of his black colleague or has to immediately back-track when he slips up and says something without thinking.

Arguably too, in Extras where two of the characters in Andy’s show (the one he’s worked so hard on yet has been dumbed-down beyond all recognition) pull their eyes back and wear lantern hats to give a presentation to two Asian people. It’s played for laughs in the fake show (I think there’s even a couple to audience members wearing Little Britain catchphrase t-shirts?) then it immediately cuts to Andy and his agent talking about how shit the program is, and how it’s target audience is ‘thick kids and their thick parents - the thick demographic’.

There’s an episode of Peep Show where Jeremy’s girlfriend makes him up in blackface to ‘break a taboo’ and pretend he’s a black man having sex with his mum. He’s mortified by it and she says ‘you can’t imagine your mum having sex with a black man? That’s pretty racist’ Again, the joke here isn’t that he’s caricaturing a black person - it’s that him and his girlfriend are so ridiculous.

I’ll stop, because this is massive now - but my point it, if you want to look at how we can use racist tropes to make racism funny, Little Britain is absolutely not it.

[blueheaven97]

It's of its time. The fact that it's not considered OK to portray characters in that way was a big part of the point of the show. They were going way OTT with certain taboos to get laughs. Watched out of context, 10-15 years later, that gets lost. I think Matt Lucas (and to a lesser extent David Walliams) have created some really funny stuff over the years, but Little Britain has never been their best work and watching a lot of it now it just feels downright nasty. I think that at some stage when they were making this they forgot to punch up instead of down.

I think what we're seeing now will mean the end of impersonation in comedy. Impersonating other people for laughs is just becoming too problematic and people will start to steer away from it.

[EverythingisBlossom]

I remember watching Little Britain when it first aired. I thought it was hilarious in the way it exposed racist/homophobic/bigoted attitudes but it soon became apparent that it was becoming a victim of it's own success - the catchphrases were so good that everyone was repeating them, and that repetition without context led to them being used in a racist way - exactly the opposite to how (I think) they were originally intended.

It got worse in the second series and I stopped watching because it suddenly seemed much more uncomfortable. More ethnic characters were introduced, like Ting Tong, and more characters with physical or learning disabilities and the humour wasn't just focused on the way other characters reacted to them but was directed at these characters themselves and suddenly didn't seem so funny to me.

Come Fly With Me seemed to take this line of "humour" even further and left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. I don't think Walliams and Lucas set out to make racist programmes but I do think they should have left LB at one series and if that had happened, it may be viewed very differently now.

Interestingly, I don't think I've seen any comment or response from Lucas or Walliams yet. Now that The Mighty Boosh is also in the firing line, I wonder what the effect will be for the Bake Off - two presenters currently under fire for blackface?!

[Raaaa]

I don't think Little Britain is racist

[Pumperthepumper]

@GinasWig

Ugh im so annoyed i cant even type!
Its up to you to say why you think white vhicks isnt racist.

No it isn’t - you brought it up. Why does David Walliams in blackface being removed from Netflix mean that two men dressed up as white women should also be removed? You see them as similar, and I don’t - so it’s really up to you to argue your point.

[GinasWig]

Ugh im so annoyed i cant even type!
Its up to you to say why you think white vhicks isnt racist.

[Pumperthepumper]

I don’t see White Chicks as racist either.

[GinasWig]

Yeah but you haven't said why it's not? You just keep saying oh others have said it.
I dont see white chicks or lb as racist its up to you to say why white chicks are racist.

[Pumperthepumper]

And white chicks is the same if in your logic LB is racist.

Why? How? Let’s see if you’re one of the many, many, many people who have said this exact thing who can actually defend it.

[GinasWig]

Ffs, they made fun of all stereotypes, including racist white people. The point was 2 actors acting out different characters. Worry about actual real racism.

And white chicks is the same if in your logic LB is racist.

[thatselementary]

I like both Little Britain and Come Fly With Me (prefer the latter). Surely if a show takes the piss out of everyone, no one has the right to be offended?

[hypernormal]

OK...

[Pumperthepumper]

Coward. You know your argument doesn’t hold water - I did watch that clip, I knew they had names. My follow up point was - their names are never used again, because they were totally disposable to that programme, they were used once and never used again. That’s the diverse cast you’re defending. Which is why you’re off now, because you know you can’t defend it. You and Bikini can’t even name one time where dressing up as a different ethnicity can be played for laughs yet still make a point. I’ve had to do it for you on the other thread - I’ve literally had to support your point because you can’t do it yourself. Pathetic.

[hypernormal]

I am very clearly saying they shouldn’t have played characters of different ethnicities. Because it’s racist. The cast was not diverse - having a group of black men in a couple of sketches does not make an entire series diverse. What were the names of all these black characters please?
Why is it racist? Why are you asking if I know the names of supporting black characters in a sketch? What do you think knowing or not knowing the names of supporting characters proves? Their names are Stephen, Justin, Thomas and Doug. If you'd watched the clip I linked, which you clearly haven't, you can hear their names announced as they walk through the door. Sorry, I haven't got time for this nonsense. I'm very interested and sympathetic in hearing from black people why they want this taken down, I don't hold Little Britain so dear that I would put my entertainment over other people's distress, but I'm not taking being called a racist for not immediately capitulating to one view, a view that many black people don't in fact hold. Adios!

[Pumperthepumper]

Please clarify your point, are you saying they shouldn't have played people from different ethnicities, and if not, why not?

I am very clearly saying they shouldn’t have played characters of different ethnicities. Because it’s racist. The cast was not diverse - having a group of black men in a couple of sketches does not make an entire series diverse. What were the names of all these black characters please?

[hypernormal]

You’re not serious? Those characters are all played by the same two white men - how can that be considered a diverse cast?

You said there weren't any anti-racist scenes in Little Britain, I've demonstrated with evidence that there clearly are.
As for having a diverse cast, there are additional actors from a variety of different backgrounds in Little Britain, as the clip I've linked shows. You can argue that Walliams and Lucas shouldn't have played characters from different ethnicities in their sketches, but you're saying that the cast wasn't diverse, and that is demonstrably false. Please clarify your point, are you saying they shouldn't have played people from different ethnicities, and if not, why not?

[monkeyonthetable]

It was hideous, misogynistic racist crap always. I never understood how people could (rightly) sneer at the Black and White Minstrels Show but think Little Britain was edgy and alternative.

[Pumperthepumper]

[quote Nousernamehistory]@Pumperthepumper

The lack of cast diversity has been brought up and utterly ignored. As was the explanation of white people's inability to experience racism after it was demanded by a pp.
It's clear that some of the posters this thread is attracting are completely unwilling or unable to consider the side of the argument that doesn't fit their "humour bypass" narrative. It's very tedious.[/quote]
And yes to this - it’s such a lazy, thoughtless response. And they’re cowards - rather than openly saying ‘I don’t give a shit that it was racist, it made me laugh and that’s all I care about’ they desperately try to come up with reasons why it’s actually NOT racist. Pathetic.

[Pumperthepumper]

Oh, I see - you think because every so often a BAME person rocks up to validate the racism, the show could be considered diverse?