To ask you to help me unpick why my son struggles socially at school?

[OhioOhioOhio]

I can't figure out what they mean when they tell me this. He's 8. He is very social when out and about with me and his younger siblings. I've asked if they arw trying to tell me that he's a bully and they say no. Apparently if you have to choose a partner he doesn't really respond. He's not asd. He might have traits of add but not enough to do anything formal about it. I'm a single parent. He father is an abusive piece of work. I have a kind family we usually see a lot of. Also I'm a teacher. I can't see what they mean.

[StirlingWork]

I wouldn't say that not choosing a partner as such is a red flag in itself but from my memory with primary school a social pecking order establishes so kids are different in their families as compared to school

[ChateauMargaux]

It is hard to understand what school mean from what is written in your OP. I have seen parents observe huge differences in their children during lockdown and have greater understanding of what type of environment and encouragement they need in order to be productive and to learn. Many times we try to fit the child to the classroom rather than fit the classroom to the child. I see this a lot with my daughter. At primary, she was sociable, jolly happy out side of school but really struggled in school. She desperately wanted to conform to the expectations of the teacher but in terms of her peers, she was incapable of conforming to their expectations. She had special connections with a number of children but struggled with the rest. She is in secondary school now, she cannot understand how the other students can't just sit down and get on with their work, she hates noise, distraction, poor behaviours and thinks the world is made up of idiots. She sets impossible standards for others and most of them fail to meet up to them but yet she is thoughtful and empathetic if incredibly patronising!! (She is 13). Teachers tell us she needs to speak up more, to let others hear her opinions and thoughts.. she is an introvert, she shares in writing and in her exam results which are all outstanding. She doesn't want to work in groups and she ends up doing everything for them. Of course we try to help with all of this but why should she have to have to annoying misbehaving kids in her group. She has always been put with these kids, right from reception, she is a good influence on them but it is to her detriment. There is a lot going on and teachers (as you well know!!!) see the classroom as a living organism to some extent.

Our children are sent to teach us, we are not here to teach them!!

Good luck seeing the world through your son's eyes and finding a way to help him navigate school and learning.

[snowone]

Honestly I just think that all kids are different. I'm a teacher also and I worry about my eldest DD (5) at school. She finds it very hard to make connections with other kids but once she does she is fiercely loyal to them. She wouldn't choose to work alone but would pick the same 1/2 kids rather than a variety. I see my DH in her so much, he is very much the same. Also I think this is compounded by the fact that she was an only child / grandchild until she was 4.5 and has spent a LOT of time with adults.

[OhioOhioOhio]

This is unbelievably helpful, especially the reading recommendations. Thank you everyone, very much.

[CallmeBadJanet]

Have they said to the children to choose a "partner"? Because us adults use that word to refer to our husband/significant other and if yours was abusive, maybe that word has negative connotations for your little guy? When mine was 8 or 9, he lost his shizzle at a news story about Whitney Houston dying, because he worked out I was a few years younger and he thought I would die when I got to her age.

[GreenGreenGrassofSloane]

I think it's hard when the teacher has given you a very cryptic observative - what's going through her head which she chooses to tell you he doesn't pick a partner, if they rest of his time at school he does everything as expected - why has just decided this is a cause for concern?
Over the years teachers made comments about my kids - when I pressed them on details they backed off and wouldn't discuss it - suggesting I was over-reacting, or saying I have my suspicions but only time will tell - I never really understood whether they were making an interesting neutral observation, being critical or suggesting my kids needed further help. I worried for years - on reflection I should have taken it up with the HT, rather than spending years trying to figure out how to fix it.

[HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime]

There is a student at my school who barely speaks, posture is very closed in, shoulders hunched tries to make herself as small as possible. They have some SEN, finds school work difficult and definitely struggles socially.

I saw the same student out with their family one weekend at a local event and it was like they were an entirely different person, laughing, joking, messing around with their siblings. Having conversations with the adults around them. It was really lovely to see and it's such a shame that their school day makes them retract what is clearly a bright and bubbly personality.

Being a teacher you'll know how a child's behaviour changes in different situations.

[Punxsutawney]

My Ds has struggled socially his whole life. He finally got an autism diagnosis last year age 15. His problems were flagged by his reception teacher when he was 4 but it took another 11 years to get his diagnosis.

I don't think that every child that struggles socially has ASD or SEN but I think it's worth talking to his teacher more if there concerns about his behaviour.

My Ds has had very little help all the way through school and it's left him with significant mental health difficulties. I wish I had pushed earlier for support.

[2ndStar]

I opened this wondering if he was 8.
Socialising gets more complex at about that age. You need specific information from the teacher ideally defined like STAR, Setting, Trigger, Action, Response.

Trauma responses aren’t just fight or flight, they are also freeze or fawn. It’s impossible to see how a child socialises in school anywhere else. It’s the only place you have a room full of the same age which highlights differences within peer group.

My own experience has taught me that the cryptic mentions should be fleshed out and not ignored and if I could go back in time I’d ask for more detail and why they felt it should be mentioned at the time. I had similar vague things about my child from age 6 and it exploded at 10.

[GreenGreenGrassofSloane]

@Punxsutawney what difference has a diagnosis made to your ds?

[SallyWD]

Could it be something as simple as shyness? My DS is is the life and soul of the party with us (he is so loud and comical!) but at school is crippled by shyness and finds it very hard to interact with others.

[StatementKnickers]

Think the school needs to be clearer. Have they told you what he does at breaktimes ie does he play with others or alone and if he's alone, does he seem sad about that? Does he have particular friends at school?

Does he do playdates/attend birthday parties? If you asked him to choose someone from school to come round for tea once things go back to normal, how would he respond?

[ConstantlyCooking]

I agree the school needs to be more specific. Also they could try putting children into pairs to work if it is an ongoing issue (and would prevent some girls using this to demonstrate their power and status). Also you mentioned your DS has mild ADD - some children with ADHD lag behind with emotional/social maturity. Obviously this varies between children but they can be as much as one third younger than their chronological age. So your DS may be struggling with this. DH has to teach DS how to approach a group having a kick about in the park to ask to join in.

[OhioOhioOhio]

2ndStar

Omg. What do you mean?

[Punxsutawney]

Green his school refused to put him on SEN support until there was an official diagnosis. I'm hoping in time that it will also help him understand himself better too.

[GreenGreenGrassofSloane]

@Punxsutawney just asking because ds got a diagnosis just before the move to secondary...he wasn't troublesome and was a hard worker so he received very little in terms of support. The diagnosis helped us with a few conversations with ds about how he needed to learn how to socialise - he just didn't take to it naturally, we needed to break it down into steps. The stress of school affected his health quite badly, with significant digestive problems. Sixth form has been the making of him though - socially speaking...the other kids seem better at accepting difference at this age, less need to conform in a very narrowly defined way and more freedom to be himself and he is much happier.
School can be a difficult environment for a lot of kids, it's one size fits all, but it doesn't fit all - adults wouldn't want to put up with it but kids have very little choice. When they leave they can find a lifestyle/community that suits them better - sometimes it's getting them through it with as little stress as possible.

[Punxsutawney]

Green I'm glad sixth form has been a more positive experience for your Ds. It's really positive to hear that things can improve! I wish we had pursued a diagnosis earlier. Secondary school has been an awful experience for Ds. He's also had very little support. I'm trying to persuade him to move schools for sixth form as he has no friends and has just been so unhappy at his present school. The lockdown situation is not helping his anxiety about returning to education though!

[GreenGreenGrassofSloane]

@Punxsutawney The lockdown will not help at all. Used to feel gutted for Ds as he had to attend all community gatherings with Dh and I or just not go, it was heartbreaking. I convinced him to work on a few connections, gently at first - people he sat beside in class, people who shared his interests - he objected to me interfering but took my advice and it worked. One of his friends dropped around a home baked cookie for him last week, with a lovely note on it - I nearly cried (privately). He says he feels he has grown out of his autism - I think he’s learned how to socialise and make friends - a skill that others don’t need to work at - he still has his obsessions - so I’m not convinced about the growing out of it - but he’s got friends he likes and they like him and that for him is the really important thing.
On the sixth form thing - unless it’s a completely new sixth form not attached to a school I wouldn’t move him. Lots of the more awkward new kids at my dcs school struggled to fit in - I’m not sure it would make things any easier.

[dreamingofyellowandnavy]

We have the same. My husband and I are teachers. I could have written your post. I have now put it down to anxiety and he responds to that in the class room. Anxiety with the teacher and other students.

[2ndStar]

@OhioOhioOhio
Full on daily school refusal and major breakdown in teacher/child relationship. Thankfully after a meeting school were supportive and an ASD diagnosis happened after about 18 months but good support and differentiation put in straight away.
In retrospect all the vague comments over the previous ; years should have been picked up by me and I should have asked more questions. I think sometimes teachers are worried about a bad reaction, or feel it’s too vague so they hint rather than be direct. Not ideal given that social communication difficulties are often inherited!

[OhioOhioOhio]

2ndStar

Thank you. I'm glad you got your situation resolved. I just find they side track the conversation and I always leave thinking, 'but what about...???'

[OhioOhioOhio]

dreamingofyellowandnavy

What will you do to support your child at school? I feel trapped in the bullshit, like they're always trying to placate me.'

[Singinginshower]

OP You need to ask the class teacher to be more specific about their observations. In my experience teachers at primary will hint at things, but not want to be specific, especially if the child is meeting the expected academic levels.
My child was described as 'quirky' and 'very able' both of which meant nothing at all to me.
Ask to speak to the Senco, who hopefully will have more experience of social communication issues, and will be more helpful.

[Starcup]

Does he maybe not like playing football when the other boys do so prefers to play alone? Seems strange they can’t give you an explanation

[FurloughedFedUp]

Not sure if it helps but at 8yrs DS wasn't at all sociable.

If there was something going on that he was interested in he would join in but he was equally happy with his own company. He is also extremely bright but also very sporty and seemed to be lost between two 'camps'. It would break my heart when he would tell me that he often just walked around at playtime 'doing some thinking' and when birthday parties became smaller he was never part of any of the friendship groups.

There was a point when I did consider getting an ASD diagnosis as he seemed to have a lot of the signs.

However since he moved to senior school he has made friends and has a little group that he gets on well with. It's taken a while to find his tribe but he is happy and settled and talks much more about his friends. During lockdown he has been online every day with this small group and I hear them chatting away.

He is still happy in his own company and sometimes comes across as being a bit 'quirky'. He occasionally needs a gentle nudge with some social stuff and is probably a natural introvert but he is happy, balanced and doing very well. I certainly don't worry about him as much - it feels as if it just took him a bit longer to catch up socially.