Irish racism in England

[angell84]

I am shocked. I am half English, half Irish. My Irish mum lived in England for a long time, gave birth to us children there with her English husband, and then moved back to Ireland.

The reason that she always gave me for returning to Ireland, was that, "she could not take the nastiness to her anymore". She described one incident of many to me: she went to my brother's primary teacher in England, and said that he had lost something, he must have been six at the time, and the teacher said to her , "sure what do you expect - he is half Irish".

I always thought of it in an abstract way, I never really understood what she meant. Until I spent quite a long time in the U.K this year.

I was absolutely shocked at the hatred and nastiness, and calling Irish people stupid.

How can it be possible? The U.K stole alot of Ireland's land, committed mass genocide during the famine, eradicated the Irish language,

And yet instead of apologising, many people are going around calling Irish people stupid.

Isn't it nearly unbelievable? It would be like a German going up to a Jew and calling them stupid. That it was their fault , thhat everything happened the way it did.

I am really shocked

[Deemail]

Actually I don't know why I'm engaging, your post highlights perfectly how bigoted some people are towards the Irish and their history.

[Patroclus]

Not sure what I can do if the truth hurts.

[LexMitior]

Right. But why do you expect people in England now to worry or address that?

[heath48]

I am in my 70’s and half Irish,with an Irish name,have served in the British Army,I have never encountered any problems here in England.

But on my many visits to Ireland I certainly have,my family are from the Dundalk area and to say they are anti-English is an understatement.

For me the Irish are way more racist than the English,I would never live there,which was my intention at one time,I would need elocution lessons to change my accent!!!

[cannycat20]

The Blight was a disease and an "Act of God" for want of a better way to describe it. (Though there were many other factors leading up to the fact that many Irish were dependent only on that crop.)

The exports to England, however, were not an "Act of God".

www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/food-exports-from-ireland-1846-47/

I've always thought it appalling that we're taught the Romans and the ruddy Tudors ad nauseam in history (and these days, if you're lucky, a bit of the Plantagenets) but taught nothing about the Irish Famine, or the Scottish Clearances, and the resulting effects on emigration to Ireland, Australia and Canada. Just as a couple of examples of our not-so-wonderful-after-all History of Empire. There are plenty of others.

[BlaueLagune]

Yeah yeah here we go again we're all nasty uneducated racists here in england who want the empire back


These threads get rather tedious. If you started a thread saying everyone in France was racist, people would get it deleted but for some reason English/British are fair game.

And people living in the UK now are not remotely old enough to have committed atrocities in Ireland (unless you count those who served in the Army in NI, a tiny minority) or to have refused help when the famine struck. I refuse to take responsibility for the actions of my forefathers (and in any event half were Irish themselves and the other half worked in the Lancashire cotton mills and other than serving in WW2, none were in the Armed Forces).

I said it yesterday in another context, but I do think some people need to move on and stop forever looking backwards.

[LexMitior]

History is written by winners. And it’s the dominant narrative. I think it’s pretty naive to imagine that a country will educate its people otherwise.

Germany lost, btw. That’s why do teach the Holocaust. If they’d won they would have written a history where the Soviet Union had killed millions.

[minisdriver]

I lived three years in Scotland where I got called 'English bitch' and was told to 'fack off back to England' more times than I care to mention.

It seems I'm not alone.. www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sophie-rodger/scottish-independence_b_3819366.html

[minisdriver]

Sorry to hear this btw

[AryaStarkWolf]

@BlaueLagune No one is expecting you to do anything now except not say "yeah, well stop living in the past, not my fault" everytime someone mentions it. You either deny it ever happened or say get over it. Atleast the Germans acknowledge what their country did to the Jews. I think actual acknowledgement is all people want -shrug-

[Mintjulia]

I doubt the vast majority of English people know about the Irish land grab, it isn’t normally taught here. And it isn’t in living memory.
I grew up during the troubles, ira bombs in London were not unusual. There was anti-Irish sentiment then but I haven’t heard any in the last twenty years.
As someone in middle age now, I see Irish people in the same way as any other European. - friends & colleagues. Sad that your mum felt unwelcome.

And should note I didn’t know that’s where the phrase “having a paddy” came from. So if I have used that phrase in the last 20 years, it was certainly without intent.

[LightDrizzle]

I think that while there will be racism against Irish people, I think it could appear greater than it is in a meaningful sense because people have been slow to appreciate that culturally entrenched (I know, entrenched because of racism) jokes, language and “humorous “ stereotypes are offensive and racist.
I think the fact that there is no colour or race prejudice element involved, so many people have seen it as on a level with jokes or references to German efficiency and literalism, or Yorkshire tight-fistedness, Italian effusiveness or Gallic arrogance and snobbery. A lot of elements of Irish culture are very popular in the UK and Irish entertainers and Irish accents have been very popular in the British mainstream since the 70s at least. It’s a paradox that Ireland is simultaneously viewers as a land of poets and great writers and intellectuals.So when some people say “that’s Irish!” they use a stereotype but without thinking it reflects a reality.
However given the history between Westminster/ England and Ireland and the Irish people, and the origins of such stereotypes and the historic exploitation of them. I agree it is wrong and I wouldn’t do it. However I must confess I’m sure I will have done in the past, not least because a close Irish friend always did it too.
Like so many things, we are slow to see these things for what they are but I think it is getting better.
Not an apologist for the behaviour, but I think ignorance rather than prejudice or contempt are behind most of it.

[caperplips]

I am Irish, in my 40's and lived in England where i definitely encountered racist attitudes from time to time.

I was studying at post grad level in Oxford and one 'mature' (ha!) student commented that it must have been difficult for me to have studied my undergrad subject (history) in Ireland...in front of a group of new class mates. I think I didn't endear myself to her when I answered that 'no, it was ok there now and we could all even read and write..' she never spoke to me again!

[SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace]

My grandparents are all Irish, moved to England for work and had my parents who then had me and moved to Ireland. Despite my parents (and I) having been born in England my family always considered ourselves Irish. I grew up in Ireland (from age 1 up until I was 22) and encountered much more intolerance and down right hatred in Ireland then I ever have in England since moving back. That's just my experience.

[Namelessinseattle]

I really liked the episode of Victoria on the famine. It was so sad.

[SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace]

Also, I've been told numerous times that I look Irish. I do look very similar to The Corrs though!

[CarolinaPink]

I’m half Irish too, and my mum lived here all her adult life.

I don’t recognise your description of overt anti-Irish prejudice. There will always be the odd idiot who likes to cling to racial stereotypes and have a bit of a go, but IME (and that of my mum) they’re pretty few and far between.

I think things have moved on a lot since the 70s, and the Englishman/Irishman/Scotsman jokes

[DoTheHop]

You've never seen overt anti-Irish sentiment?

How about this post suggesting we're inbred hence the 'Irish look'.

Spidey66
There is definitely an Irish look. Fair skin/red hair/freckles is the obvious, but it's not just that. I can't explain it, but I can generally tell an Irish person on the street, especially if they're older. Younger Irish less so as there (at one time) was a smaller gene pool, as not may people emigrated to Ireland. (Just migrated out of it!)

[SheChoseDown]

You want people to apologise? Give over.

Tbh young people know very very little about Irelands history. I'm in my 30s and my bf has taught me a fair bit. It's sad, it really should be taught more.
In my area there is a lot of hatred towards Irish travelers. They've caused a lot of trouble here and cost the council a great sum of money so people are obviously pissed.
I have also lived in Manchester, within a very popular Irish community which was fab! No animosity, no racism. Everyone was happy.

[DoTheHop]

I've experienced it twice at work recently.
Firstly at induction by the Head of the Legal Dept who was explaining the various offices they had.
She came to the Irish office and said 'then we have the Irish office who carry out their business in their own unique Irish way'.
I piped up 'Eh, say what now?'
She then went on to elaborate that everything seemed to be carried out with 'a nod, a wink and a handshake'. Overtly suggesting that we were unprofessional scam artists. Yes, you've got that right - the Head of the Legal Department.

Another occasion was when an older female colleague said that I didn't have a terribly strong Irish accent and snidely remarked 'Well, we can understand you'.

[DoTheHop]

I think this clip is adequate rebuttal to the 'thick Irishman' sentiment........

[angemorange]

In the 1980's and early 90's I would have had a fair few insults when living in England, but at that time there was an IRA terror campaign with bombings on the mainland and we were all tarred with the one brush.

The worst was being refused service in a shop once they heard my accent. I don't think the same things happen now, it's much more common to have Northern Irish people on TV and in the media and I don't think we stand out anywhere in the UK now.

My English friends who live in NI probably get more comments or 'banter' but I don't think they have any real problems either.

[DoTheHop]

If you don't think the 'smaller gene pool' comment is anti-Irish, would you find it offensive if I said that there's no such thing as an English person now, as they're all inter-bred? Is that offensive?

[theghostofjohnsmith]

DH's family are Irish. I'm not aware of any issues with anti-Irish sentiment over the last 20yrs or so . A good majority of his family are openly racist, though. His family who still live in Ireland use language that I thought had died out many years ago. And his family here aren't quite as blatant, but hold racist and xenophobic views. His mum doesn't see the irony of this when I remind her of the "no dogs, no blacks, no Irish" signs she would have encountered years ago.
There's also significant racism again Irish travellers amongst the family here are in Ireland.

[mrsglowglow]

I'm 2nd generation Irish and have lived in London most of my life. I never experience any problems in London or anywhere else in England. It was difficult for my parents in the 60's, 70's and 80's and I remember some of it particularly during the IRA bombing campaign but not now. London has a huge Irish culture and apart from a minority (football hooligans mainly) I've had no negative attitudes. I think we've had it easier than other immigrants in that second and third generations mainly appear the same as English people. My friends of West Indian and African parents still at times face prejudice even though they have been born and raised here.