Michaela School and behaviour - AIBU

[herculepoirot2]

AIBU to think that you might read this behaviour policy and think it is authoritarian and unnecessary, but to also think that, with results four times better than the national average, these people might have a point about the benefits to young people of being expected to work hard and behave well?

mcsbrent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Behaviour-Policy-11.02.19.pdf

[CarolDanvers]

Children with sensory issues will not able able to help themselves with scratching a hand or seeking other sensory input and then they'll be punished for it, leading to stress at the unfairness of it, leading to a reaction, leading to a detention and so on and on. Children with dyspraxia will not be able to help forgetting pens or being "scruffy".

Some of what you say makes sense for a child with additional needs which present in certain way, eg possibly a child with autism that likes rules and expectations to be very clear, but they're all SO different and having lived and worked with children with multiple additional needs for almost 15 years I would say less than a fifth of the ones I have known would fit that description.

[herculepoirot2]

here are children whose needs mean that they can't sit still, or they stimm, or are otherwise incapable of the kind of 'obedient' class and corridor behaviour required at the school.

I know, it’s a quandry. Because this approach is clearly working so well for hundreds of children.

[herculepoirot2]

Children with sensory issues will not able able to help themselves with scratching a hand or seeking other sensory input and then they'll be punished for it, leading to stress at the unfairness of it, leading to a reaction, leading to a detention and so on and on. Children with dyspraxia will not be able to help forgetting pens or being "scruffy".

I think that’s very reductive, if I’m honest with you. Some children with SN, with the right adjustments, manage these things perfectly well. The school has an SEN policy that sets out in detail many forms of support it offers so that these children are more likely to cope.

[Xenia]

It makes a lot of sense to me. In a sense that is what I paid school fees for - relatively silent classes and children who behave and if that gets good results for the manjority particulyarly as here children from poor homes in terms of money etc then it seems very mean that we decide to help 1 in 40 children sho disrupt classes who have a problem that means they are noisy just to keep that 1 happy and yet destroy the education of the other 39. If you cannot keep quiet in class you need to be a different class or school, one that meets your needs and does not destroy concentration for the majority of the class.

[CarolDanvers]

I think that’s very reductive, if I’m honest with you.

Do you? 

Well in return I don't think you have the slightest clue what you're talking about. I see you ignored the sentence where I told you I have lived and worked with children with additional needs for many years...

Tbh most people don't get it. They pat themselves on the back and say all wide eyed things like "but the school has wonderful provision for children with special needs!" Unless you've lived and worked it you've no idea what a demerit for scratching a hand might do to a heightened, anxious child who feels they can never get a thing right.

[JacquesHammer]

In a sense that is what I paid school fees for - relatively silent classes and children who behave and if that gets good results

I paid for, and got, that too. They just didn’t need any draconian methods to achieve this.

[herculepoirot2]

Well in return I don't think you have the slightest clue what you're talking about. I see you ignored the sentence where I told you I have lived and worked with children with additional needs for many years...

Me too. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[herculepoirot2]

They just didn’t need any draconian methods to achieve this.

How did they achieve it?

[JacquesHammer]

How did they achieve it?

Nurturing with a reasonable behaviour policy - accepting that children are individuals and there isn’t a one size fits all in terms of achieving desired behaviour.

[CarolDanvers]

Hmm, I'm struggling to believe that tbh @herculepoirot2

[herculepoirot2]

CarolDanvers

That does seem consistent with your general posting style, Carol: someone has an opinion or experience that differs from yours, which must mean they are a liar. Think whatever you want.

[herculepoirot2]

Nurturing with a reasonable behaviour policy - accepting that children are individuals and there isn’t a one size fits all in terms of achieving desired behaviour.

Lots of places trying that, with worse results than Michaela, and lots of unhappy children. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Namenic]

I’m not sure michaela students get taught less critical thinking than other schools just because they are strict. You need knowledge before you can reason about it. Often you can also learn a method of analysis - which can be achieved by rote and/or repeated practice. Eg how to solve an algebraic equation or a checklist of criteria to remember to consider in source analysis. Spaced repetition is an effective way of learning. Hopefully the kids can take some of the rote learning methods and do them on their own at home. It would serve them well for many uni courses - though maybe not all.

[CarolDanvers]

So funny, because the very first thing I thought when I saw you'd started this thread was that I wasn't surprised it was you and how consistent you are in advocating such harsh child rearing methods on every single related thread I see you on, that's when you're not berating other posters and trying to shame them for not doing and thinking things exactly the way you do, ie in a very limited and authoritarian way.

[AndNoneForGretchenWieners]

It's a relatively rare example of a free school that has a successful financial model, and is able to balance is budget whilst offering excellence in standards. However, I would be surprised if they either don't appeal to parents of SEN children because of the very public emphasis on obedience and strict code of conduct, which some children could struggle with, or they don't have many places for SEN children (managed out of the school or not admitted in the first place). It is problematic for me because the results speak for themselves and while I struggle to agree with the concept of free schools for lots of reasons, I can see the positives here as well as the negatives.

I think the pupils have done extraordinarily well, they should be very proud.

[JacquesHammer]

Lots of places trying that, with worse results than Michaela, and lots of unhappy children

Stop press. One style of schooling doesn’t work for every school. It’s almost a controversial concept isn’t it....

[herculepoirot2]

So funny, because the very first thing I thought when I saw you'd started this thread was that I wasn't surprised it was you and how consistent you are in advocating such harsh child rearing methods on every single related thread I see you on, that's when you're not berating other posters and trying to shame them for not doing and thinking things exactly the way you do, ie in a very limited and authoritarian way.

I’m not at all harsh. I think children benefit from firmness as well as kindness, not from an excuses culture that, rather than supporting them to remember a pen, just allows them not to have one.

[herculepoirot2]

Stop press. One style of schooling doesn’t work for every school. It’s almost a controversial concept isn’t it....

My point is that, for the demographic served by Michaela, this approach seems to work better.

[JacquesHammer]

My point is that, for the demographic served by Michaela, this approach seems to work better

Not enough data to suggest the approach could be lifted to work anywhere else though.

[herculepoirot2]

Not enough data to suggest the approach could be lifted to work anywhere else though.

Definitely worth a go in some of the ineffective and less effective schools that aren’t getting results like this, or making their children feel as secure.

[JacquesHammer]

Definitely worth a go in some of the ineffective and less effective schools that aren’t getting results like this, or making their children feel as secure

Hopefully in time for parents to make an educated choice as to whether they want their kids to attend. As I said I don’t think the results are worth the policies.

[chomalungma]

Our local comp has just posted results of 77% of all results at Grades 9-7

@JacquesHammer

Are you saying that 77% of ALL results in your local comp are equivalent to Grade A and above?

That seems very unusual.

[herculepoirot2]

As I said I don’t think the results are worth the policies.

Doubt you’d be saying that if you were collecting your clutch of 7s and 8s and off to a good sixth form. The kids seem happy enough.

[JacquesHammer]

Are you saying that 77% of ALL results in your local comp are equivalent to Grade A and above?

That seems very unusual

Just going by what they’ve posted on their website this morning, can only assume they’re correct as it’s a fairly major error if not! We are lucky in that the two best schools in the LEA are our catchment schools (although DD goes elsewhere!)

[herculepoirot2]

That seems very unusual.

In a privileged area it might be more likely. Somehow I think Jacques isn’t living in Brent.